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- > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Laundry Appliance Repair Forum > Whirlpool (POS) Calypso - intermittent drain failure

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Whirlpool (POS) Calypso - intermittent drain failure  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Wed Jun 21st, 2006 08:12 pm
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jlagrua
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I have the Service Manual. Keep it by my bedside. Went through the automatic and manual diagnostic tests.

Model GVW9959KQ1

Automatic Diagnostics:

Wash Tub Full:
--------------
Fill Good
Nutate Good
Rinse Good
Spin Good
Drain FAIL


Manual diagnostic results:

All LEDs test good.

Wash Tub Empty:
---------------
Fill Good
Nutate Good - All Speeds
Rinse Good
Spin Good - All Speeds
Drain Good after some water added


Wash Tub Full:
--------------
Fill Good
Nutate Good - All Speeds
Rinse Good
Spin Good - All Speeds
Drain FAILS to drain (in manual diagnostic mode, begins draining after 30-60 sec. delay or does not drain at all - intermittent failure)

Pump/Pump Motor Assembly was replaced 7 days ago.

Diagnostic Logic Applied (correct me if I'm wrong)
--------------------------------------------------
When it failed to drain I ran the automatic and manual diagnostics and determined the drain funtionality is the only failure. But since the Rince/Recycle and Drain functions are carried out by the same pump/motor I removed it from the equation - especially in light of its' recent replacement.

I attached the drain hose to my ShopVac(tm) and evacuated the wash tub. Worked damn good as the diameter of the nozzle was just slightly larger than the drain hose. Made for a nice, tight seal and not a drop of water hit the floor. Once emptied, I re-ran the manual diagnostics and then the drain functionality mysteriously resumed without issue. I even tried filling and draing several times and included other functionality like spin, nutate, rinse, etc. to see if I could get it to fail. Nope. Worked flawlessly.

So, next I ran a Quick Wash cycle with no clothes or soap. Watched the entire cycle - no untoward behavior. Loaded a load of sheets with soap and ran a Quick Wash cycle - wash cycle terminated prematurely with a CE error. Cancelled cycle, returned to manual diagnostics - drain failed. Reset to Quick Wash - it got to rinse/spin and terminated with a CA. I think this was an overheat condition, but can't be sure. Let sit for a few minutes, and atempted a Rinse/Spin cycle. Terminated with LD error code. Manually drained with ShopVac again. Entered Manual Diagnostic mode and went through the functionality step-by-step all modes function, including drain. All functions good. Finally got tired. Went to bed.

Analysis:
Suspect Machine Control Board (P/N#1156559) but a faulty pressure switch is not out of the question, either.

Any assistance/clarification/corroboration appreciated. The wife is chomping at the bit for me to order parts/call a repairman. I can fix it, I just want to be sure I'm fixing the right thing.

Regards,
Jeff La Grua

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 Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 12:17 am
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BLTH15

 

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are you sure you're not using too much soap could just be oversudsing. especially when you run it without any soap and it's ok.

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 Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 12:37 am
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jlagrua
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Possible, except for the lack of a SL error, and the fact that the pump does not actuate at all during the drain portions of the cycle/diagnostics. It doesn't even try. If it were sudsing, I would expect to hear the pump at least attepmting to drain. That is not the case. I will try running a load with no soap and see what happens. Still suspecting the board. Gotta pick up a Multimeter on the way home to test the motors, boards, and wiring looms.


r-
Jeff

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 Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 03:16 am
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nickfixit
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Search the drain hose, that white box with the check valve ball, and inside the tub for any foreign objects. I had a dime drive me crazy on one of these POS's.

Basically it's a big steaming pile of monkey dung with flies buzzing around it.



____________________
" Giving numerical data to Sears management is like giving a monkey a machine gun. No one knows for certain what will happen, but you can be sure of two things... It will be real messy, and only the monkey will be unharmed"
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 08:50 am
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jlagrua
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Okay, while I do see the odd penny in the sump, the gremlin lies elsewhere. I pulled P5 off the motor control board and measured resistances:

(Recirc to Neutral) Red/Blu to White 20.3 Ω (Spec is 10-12Ω)
(Drain to Neutral) Tan/Yel to White 20.3Ω (Spec is 10-12Ω)
(Recirc to Drain) Red/Blu to Tan/Yel 40.6Ω (Spec is 20-25Ω)

While this appears out of spec, keep in mind this is an aftermarket pump/pump motor.

So, I got out the trusty ShopVac and purged it yet again, put it into its very familiar prostrate position and pulled off the bottomplate to have a look at the "knickers".

I pulled the plug from the pump motor and measured again - Identical readings.

Okay, so the wiring is good, and without proper spec sheets, I'm gonna call the motor good for the moment.

So, I get adventureous- I pull off the impeller cover to the pump (as this aftermarket pump is WAY more serviceable than the stock POS). All is clean, and all is spinning freely. No grinding, no spindle slap, no noise at all.

So here's the rub- I go into the now all too familiar manual Diagnostics mode and turn on the pump in recirc mode, and dive down for a look-see. Impeller spinning away happily. Turn off recirc, pump stops. Good so far. Next I put pump into drain mode. Nada, nichts, zero, zilch, bupkis, big freakin gooseeggs.

So now to apply- if the resistances of the motor windings are symmetrical -

(Follow me here) The ratio for the windings is:

(Recirc to Neutral) vs (Drain to Neutral) 1:1
(Recirc to Neutral) vs (Recirc to Drain) 1:2
(Drain to Neutral) vs (Recirc to Drain) 1:2

Then the ratios are identical to the ratios for the factory pump (rememeber the factory specs):

10-12Ω, 10-12Ω, and 20-25Ω (10x2=20 and 12*2=24)
Hence 1:1, 1:1, and 1:2.

Ergo, more evidence the pump is okay, spec-wise. So, if the pump is good and I'm getting voltage in recirc but not drain, and we have established the wiring is good, that tells me that no magic blue smoke is getting to the pump from the board.

So here's the $149.00 question: what voltages should I be getting at P5 of the Motor control Board for each pair of pins (recirc-neut & drain-neut)?

I pulled the board and visual inspection yeilded no burnt components or solder joints. I decided to give the pins a test and here's the voltages:


Tan/Yel to White (Drain) | Off: 188-190 mVAC | Recirc: 184mVAC | Drain: 153-154VAC
Red/Blu to White (Recirc) | Off: 184 mVAC | Recirc: 119.9-120.2VAC| Drain: 205-207mVAC

Now call me crazy (or Ishmael), but while 120VAC seems acceptable for a voltage to run an AC motor running off house current 153-154VAC does not. However, without a schematic of the board and specs, as well as specs of the motor, I can't say for sure where the fault lies. If it were the motor I would expect to see resistances MUCH different than what I'm seeing. Also, I would not suspect a motor to die in 7 days under very light usage (and without the accompanying burnt electrical stink). Perhaps the capacitor on the motor assembly? Again without specs, I can't say for sure. Any ideas? I still want to say motor board, but I'd rather PAY for the capacitor. Or returning the pump/motor for a exchange for free is good too, but it just doesn't fit.

Any info appreciated.

Regards,
Jeff

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 Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 12:39 pm
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nickfixit
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jlagrua wrote:

While this appears out of spec, keep in mind this is an aftermarket pump/pump motor.


 

You mean some company, other than whirlpool, is making parts for these? Was it much cheaper than a factory part?

Nick



____________________
" Giving numerical data to Sears management is like giving a monkey a machine gun. No one knows for certain what will happen, but you can be sure of two things... It will be real messy, and only the monkey will be unharmed"
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 Posted: Thu Jun 22nd, 2006 05:00 pm
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jlagrua
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nickfixit wrote:
jlagrua wrote:

While this appears out of spec, keep in mind this is an aftermarket pump/pump motor.


 

You mean some company, other than whirlpool, is making parts for these? Was it much cheaper than a factory part?

Nick


Well, perhaps I misspake- it is a replacement part that is a different design than the original part. I doubt sincerely that whirlpool made the original pump to begin with, but yes it is different from the original. It used to be a motor with a pump that slipped onto the motor's spindle. Now the pump is integrated into the motor and the impeller is attached directly to the spindle with a plastic impeller cover which attaches to the hoses. It was $107.00 - you can see/find it here:

http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=1058894

It is also the only part available for this application, anywhere. I've read rumor on the IntarWeb that it was "redesigned", but who knows...

So are you ready for weird?

I decided to test the plug at P5 of the Motor Control Board again this morning and:

In manual Diagnostic Mode, hooked to Tan/Yel - White (Drain), it gave me 118-119VAC and the pump began to drain. For a few moments. Then it alternated between that and 180mV and then just stopped. Leaving the trodes in place, I put it into recirc, and lo and behold, the board was putting out 149-150VAC onto the Drain circuit in RECIRC MODE!! Pump Recircs water in Recirc mode. No-pumpy-pumpy in drain. So I switched trodes to the recirc circuit and tested there:

Here's what I got:

Red/Blu to White (Recirc) | Off: 184 mVAC | Recirc: 119.9-120.2VAC| Drain: 205-207mVAC

Then back to drain:

Tan/Yel to White (Drain) | Off: 188-190 mVAC | Recirc: 149-150VAC | Drain: 188-190mVAC

Then as I pushed the trode deeper into the socket between the wire and the plug, the motor came to life and voltage in Drain mode came back as long as I held pressure on my trode. Push - voltage; let go - no voltage. So I kept pushing releasing and then it stayed on. I don't know if it is/was loose wire/wire not fully seating in the plug, or cold solder joint on the board, but I'm running a small load now to see if it completes. More info as it comes...

UPDATE:

The cycle completed fully. Running another, but at leat the source is isolated. If it keeps working, then, hey, I saved $143.65. If not then I know where to get a new board and life goes on. Thanks everyone for your input and asistance! This. Board. Rocks.

Regards,
Jeff

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 Posted: Fri Jun 23rd, 2006 12:00 am
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nickfixit
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Jeff,

I'll give ya your props.. you don't give up. That's a good trait to have when you own the old "collapse-o".

Nice work.

That new motor/pump assm does seem to perform better than the original, but the bar was set pretty low.

Nick



____________________
" Giving numerical data to Sears management is like giving a monkey a machine gun. No one knows for certain what will happen, but you can be sure of two things... It will be real messy, and only the monkey will be unharmed"
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