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- > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Laundry Appliance Repair Forum > Old Kennmore 110.82370120 needs some TLC...

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Old Kennmore 110.82370120 needs some TLC...  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Nov 6th, 2010 10:22 am
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mystica555
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(Sorry for the lengthiness of the post; I prefer being thorough versus giving an unclear picture of the problems involved.  I've worked customer service/tech support for a living and always can appreciate a good explanation of the issue someone has with their email...)

I've got an older Kennmore that's seen better days.  Model 110.82370120.  Its old enough that "Model 120" is silk-screened far to the left of the stamped model # in the metal ID badge.  It came with the house when my mom and I moved in back in 1996.  I don't know the history of it before this time.

Right now theres a number of issues we are facing. I've segmented them out by sections, listed in order of 'annoyance factor'.  Also at the end, I have a question about the particulars of how these older Kenmore/Whirlpool belt-driven washers work.


First and foremost, this is a major bane of my existence.

1: The washer seems to continually be pumping a steady small stream of water down the drain the entire time its turned on. 

It can lose 4 inches of water level in a single 14 minute Cotton/Sturdy cycle.

Here's a description of what a 'normal' (oh the stretching of that word) wash for me entails:

I start some very warm water, temperature controlled by limiting the cold water at the recently retrofitted (3 years old) easy to turn (quarter turn between full on and off) wall valves.  Our house has a pressure issue on the Hot line caused by a hot water heater that's older than I am... Think early 80s or late 70s. Before the valve retrofit the really old thin-threaded-screw style valves were a pain.

We got the supply hoses replaced at the same time as the valves so there's no worry about a brittle rubber hose bursting when leaving the valves on; However (as listed below in its own section) the washer will sloooowly fill with water if standing powered off, idle, with the water at full pressure. 

(Without limiting the cold water line pressure, the 'Warm' cycle produces rather tepid wash water.  I also take showers with full hot and about 1/4 turn on the cold...)

After starting to fill the washer tub with water, I add liquid detergent and clothes.  When it fills up entirely, in goes 3-4 of the included 29.6cc sized scoops of generic oxygen cleaner from Kroger. (Aka 1 fluid ounce, and yes the scoop is labeled 29.6 cubic centimeters)  

I then let it agitate about 1-2 minutes to thoroughly mix everything. Then I push the knob in and let it sit for a good 15-20 minutes before reengaging the cycle, to let the sodium percarbonate fully dissolve and turn to peroxide thereby oxygenating the water as much as possible to fight the food stains I get on everything...

As mentioned, during the 14 minute Cotton/Sturdy wash cycle the tub will lose a good 4 inches of water.  I have begun fighting this by removing the drain hose from the standpipe and aiming it back into the tub so the water recirculates. 

I also am thereby forced into standing in the washroom next to the washer keeping a hawks eye on it so it won't start draining with gusto, fly out of the position its aimed and flood all over...

Also, due to starting the cycle for a minute to agitate before pausing, the drain hose fully fills to the top and starts leaking into the standpipe (or tub if I've moved it at this stage).  When I re-engage the wash cycle, I get a large gush of water out of the drain hose followed by the small steady stream.  If I let the tub fill and normally run without stopping, there are no gushes, it just slowly starts filling the vertical drain hose and then leaking out.

I've not measured a flow rate...It is however a little more than an 1/8 inch diameter stream.  If you want a flow rate, I can stand with a measuring cup and a stopwatch ;)

2: The timer 'misses' or fails to engage some of the cycles. 

It won't spin between wash/rinse in either Cotton/Sturdy or Permanent Press. It won't go into pre-soak at all.  I find if I manually try to advance the timer just under the rotation needed to make it 'click' I am able to sometimes engage the spin.  It WILL turn on the cold water spray 3 times without spinning. (Yes, the lid is either always closed or the lid switch engaged with a clothes pin)

I am thinking this may be due to possible 'dirty' contacts on the timer, just like old audio potentiometers get.. This of course causes loss of volume and static on the audio end; perhaps a similar problem on the timer with it not making enough contact to engage the cycle..


(While not a 'current issue', it may be relevant to the wear and tear on the unit)

3: For probably as long as we've had this house, the washer has been tilting backward approximately 6 degrees. (and likely before this for who knows how long, unless this 'problem' was 'created' by a shady repair tech...)

It would appear that for the entire lifetime of this washer save for the past 5 months after  I noticed just *how badly* it was tilting backwards, the washer has been out of level.  I took some large pliers and adjusted the plastic feet to properly level it with a spirit level.

At one point, I'm told a repair tech had completely disconnected the off-balance sensor... Another tech has since re-connected it when we had to have the the motor or belt or something fixed due to of the stresses of off balance clothes whacking around...

I was  living out of state for a job at that point, so I don't have the full details on those particular repairs... I do know the washer's seen 5 repairs since 1996 when we moved in...
4: The tub starts to fill with water, very slowly over the course of maybe a week or 2, if full pressure is maintained on the washer's internal valves. 

This is the least of our worries, now that we have the nice easy 1/4 turn valves on the supply lines.  Unless this is related to issue #1, I don't feel the need to repair this fault.

Internal mechanism question about the belt-drive and drain pump:

Related to #1, and to hopefully settle an a point of contention between me and my mother:

I believe in this particular style of Kennmore/Whirlpool with the belt drive, that the drain pump and everything else driven by the belt is continually running.  My mother instead thinks that the pump turns on and off, and that is never engaged while the wash cycle is agitating.  I saw an exploded diagram of this style of washer here on this site circa 2005 (Link to diagrams on Applianceguru Forum) It shows some sort of recirculation cam that I think may be the issue on #1.

My mother however believes that somehow the water is siphoning out and also she says she can 'hear when the pump turns on and off'. 

I believe that what she is hearing is simply the differing load stresses on the motor - agitating clothes and water, vs no agitate causing different whines.

I also contend this siphoning cannot happen for a few reasons:

1, there is no air seal to the standpipe. It's nearly twice the diameter of the drain hose.
2, the standpipe ends 5 inches above the top of the main washer body. Its almost level with the top of the knob/control/logo 'backsplash' for lack of better term.
3, there is no leaking when the motor is not engaged. Turn the power on, it starts streaming out water.

I am hoping that I can figure out what the problem is this go around and save the costly repair tech fee once again...  With my recent unemployment and this economy, we just can't afford more costly repairs.

Thanks for this forum, and BTW your wonderful disclaimer may become viral; I've tweeted a link to a pastebin of it, in its entirety, and have gotten responses such as 'twisted' and 'mental' :)

Regards,

Mike

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 Posted: Sat Nov 6th, 2010 03:34 pm
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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Right off the bat, you need a pump (the slow drain while running) and a water inlet valve (water seeping in while off).

Pump part link==> http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Drain-Pump/191986?modelNumber=110.82370120%20%20%20

Water inlet valve part link==> http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Water-Inlet-Valve/3231?modelNumber=110.82370120%20%20%20

Sounds like you *may* need a new timer, too==> http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Timer/1131?modelNumber=110.82370120%20%20%20

Pump runs the entire time in this washer-- it's connected to the motor by the belt and it runs whenever the motor runs.

Adjust the footings to get the washer reasonably level again. Doesn't have to be bubble level. And make sure the weight is distributed evenly among the four footings; rock the diagonals for play.



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 Posted: Sun Nov 7th, 2010 10:02 pm
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LtSiver
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A note about the hot water heater: Find out when it was made. Older water heaters of the time frame you mentioned had a problem with the dip tube - it would disintegrate over a few years. This is most likely the cause of your poor water pressure on the hot line. (make sure you have debris filters on your hoses, if you don't, you'll have little white chunks of plastic in your valves and that's bad) Unfortunately you cannot get replacement courtesy of the lawsuit - it's already past the time. You might want to take the aerators off your faucet and see if they have little white chunks of plastic in them, that's another indicator. If you want to repair it on the cheap, you can probably just replace the dip tube - if you don't have any other problems with the heater. (and if you can find someone that carries it) Replacing the water heater would be a good consideration if you'd like to save money on your hot water. (tankless ones are expensive but on demand, so you're not heating a tank. Unfortunately they are usually made by bosch, since they bought the company in the US that made them. (aquastar) They also have some maintenance costs too. I'm sure the folks on this board would probably have some recommendations for what water heater to get.

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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 01:42 am
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mystica555
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Samurai, Domo Arigato for the parts links.  I am hoping to get the pump soon and replace it.  The valves, again with retrofitting our shutoffs on the wall, its a very small concern.

I am wondering however... If I have to spend  > $100 on the new timer, would it be possible to attempt a repair with electronics contact cleaner?  (again, comparing to an old amplifier volume potentiometer)  It just seems to not quite make contact at all points..

LtSiver, Thanks for the information on the hot water heater. 

I don't believe there is any sort of plastic in the system...However, I always find a ton of metal (looks like rusty iron) in the aerators in my kitchen faucet... Also, the hot water starts out moderately rust-colored whenever I start the tub. 

Thanks again for this great forum and informational site, its been interesting browsing around reading all sorts of stuff :)

Mike


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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 07:24 am
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LtSiver
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Are your pipes Galvanized? If so, the hot water pipes could just be crudded up with rust. That would explain the poor pressure. Is your hot water heater gas or electric?

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 Posted: Mon Nov 8th, 2010 09:10 am
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mystica555
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Its gas-fired. As far as I can remember of our crawlspace, all of the water pipes are copper.  I'll have to double-check at some point however.

We did have our drain (Cast iron+lead packing between joints) replaced between the diagonal line heading down into our street sewer (that line's still cast iron) but everything from where it sticks out of the dirt in our crawlspace up to the sinks/downstairs toilet was replaced with ABS.  This was replaced at the same time as the 1960s Crane toilet that was leaking continually around the flapper.

I'm not certain, but it definitely sounded like they used a Sawzall on the iron piping... We got massive amounts of rust immediately after the new drain was installed and we were allowed to run the water again.  The sheer amount of vibration going throughout our houses piping was rather massive.

We still get rust and I have to clean out the kitchen aerator about once every few months else its flow gets cut in half from the rust bits clogging its intake holes.


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