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Brand new Kenmore Elite HE3T, just how much is normal noise/vibration?

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Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2010 08:08 am

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VitaminWater
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I got a brand new Kenmore Elite(Made in Germany by Whirlpool) HE3T and the front says something about "quiet" but its louder than my old school 15 year old washer we had.

The washer is not touching anything, but when it is on spin cycle, it makes soft thumps as if a hose is slapping on something. When I check the perimeter, there is no slapping around. The washer doesn't walk (has not yet), but if I leave a bottle of water on top, it will vibrate enough that it will move around and fall off.

No error codes at all.

When I bought it, the delivery idiots loaded into the truck upside down. I balked at the idiots(with one of them being Sears loading dock grunt) and they put it upright, so it didn't get transported upside down, but would being upside down even for a few seconds damage anything?

Washer is perfectly level and checked with bubble level. It doesn't rock back and forth, side to side, or diagonally. Is it just the way it works, or is it most likely that getting put upside down briefly damaged something?

One thing I noticed also was that one of the transporter bolts were slightly bent.

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Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2010 12:45 pm

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appl.tech.29501
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Its definitely not good to turn that machine upside down. I wonder if they removed the shipping bolts?

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Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2010 03:57 pm

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appl.tech. may be close, did they remove all of the shipping fasteners ?? should be four screws and four plastic spacers......... The "slapping noise" could be the drain hose ....from the pump to the drain....tapping on the floor / wall inside....... You could also call Sears and tell them the story and to send a tech ( for free ) to check the shocks and the struts.....OR, you are returning the unit in exchange for a new one..................30 day return policy??

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Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2010 05:32 pm

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Make a video of the washer while it's running so that we can listen to the noise. Different noises correspond to different problems with the washer; for example, bearings, struts, cabinet noise, etc. Upload your video to YouTube and post the link here so that we can watch/listen.

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Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2010 07:09 pm

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VitaminWater
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I took the top and front bottom off. Looked around. Struts are plastic cheapies. No obvious signs of damage, or signs of contact on inner surface of top lid.

I'm making a video in a bit

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Posted: Thu Oct 21st, 2010 07:16 pm

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VitaminWater
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All the bolts were still there when I received it. Friend and I did the install. It was a close-out and Sears wouldn't give me free delivery.

The thing is, Sears grunt physically assisted in loading it onto delivery truck with helpers I hired and it still somehow ended up being allowed to be loaded upside down.

I think "assisting loading" means not allowing that to happen.

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Posted: Fri Oct 22nd, 2010 04:45 am

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john63

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If the washer is on a WOOD FLOOR---this is the source of the shaking / rattle / vibration / noise.

Leveling the washer (with a level tool ) is done mostly for cosmetic reasons (ie, leveled and even with the dryer).

Once a washer has been leveled---it is necessary to add a single bath-towel and put the washer in a *drain / spin* cycle. Wait until the tub begins to "ramp-up" to higher spin speed---then check both of the front "legs" of the washer for slight movement off the floor (hop). This can be done by simply placing a finger on each of the front leveling legs until it can be felt which leg is moving up & down.

Using a special wrench (provided with most front load washers) adjust the leveling leg incrimentally until the movement stops completely.

At this point all of the leveling legs should be LOCKED. This is done by tightening a nut on the leveling leg against the base of the washer to keep the washer leveling legs from becoming "out-of-adjustment" from normal use of the washer over time.

Whirlpool front load washers on a wood floor--in most cases--cannot be made smooth during a spin cycle with laundry in the tub. Most consumers will say that they've given up trying to actually stop the spin cycle racket and have decided to "live with it".

On a CONCRETE FLOOR---this washer should NOT vibrate / shake. Certainly shouldn't toss items from the top of the washer onto the floor.

As long as the secondary adjustment was done---testing of the washer with a single towel in the tub---which "mimics" an imbalanced load condition---to allow precise leveling of the washer legs.

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Posted: Fri Oct 22nd, 2010 01:40 pm

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VitaminWater wrote: ... It was a close-out and Sears wouldn't give me free delivery.

a close-out ?

OR perhaps a customer return.. ?

was it in the box ?

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Posted: Tue Oct 26th, 2010 10:54 am

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VitaminWater
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I installed it myself. Leveled properly. Verified levelness. Tightened the back-nuts against the washer and obviously, removed those bolts. You can't even get the power cord out until you remove it.

All four transportation bolts were in place. It was still shrink wrapped, came with originally accessories in sealed bags. There was still peel off protective thing on the front cover.

No odor of detergent at all, so I don't think it was a return.

Sears say "its been in back of our warehouse for a long time".
Sears will-call dock clerk assisted in loading, but he permitted the thing to become loaded upside down until I just went off on him and the loading people I hired, all because they wouldn't do full blown delivery on "close out".

I removed the top cover. Visual inspection found no obvious signs of internal parts to internal surface impact.

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Posted: Tue Oct 26th, 2010 11:41 am

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VitaminWater
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In the video, I ran it on express wash cycle. I put in a pair of jeans, a few pairs of socks, a light weight shorts, and a t-shirt. Both bottles of detergents are full. The black round thingy behind the bubble level is just a piece of plastic to demonstrate.

The yellow jug vibrates quite vibrantly and the red Tide just wanders all over the place.

That along with the thunk thunk thunk noise (I already verified it is not coming from things outside of machine banging on the cabinet).

Is this within normal operation noise level or did something get F'ed during loading incident or whatever the hell it may have seen in warehouse?

It appears to have been manufactured sometime in 2009 judging from labels I found on components inside. There's a sticker on the plastic outer drum that reads 7.10.09.

It is made in Germany, so I'm assuming that means 7th of October, 2009.

There is no bulging abnormalities in points of structural support.
http://www.applianceguru.com/view_topic.php?id=28063&forum_id=2&jump_to=176887
One of the transport screws that held the drum assembly secure during shipping was bent (which is 1/4" steel bolt).

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Posted: Tue Oct 26th, 2010 03:45 pm

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john63

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<<<<Is this within normal operation noise level>>>>

*****************

If the washer is on a wood floor---yes.

For those wanting to keep items on top of a front load washer that "throws" things off to the floor---placing a thin rubber mat on top of the washer will keep things in place.

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Posted: Wed Oct 27th, 2010 03:08 am

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VitaminWater
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man wrote: Make a video of the washer while it's running so that we can listen to the noise. Different noises correspond to different problems with the washer; for example, bearings, struts, cabinet noise, etc. Upload your video to YouTube and post the link here so that we can watch/listen.

Did as you requested, any comment?

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Posted: Wed Oct 27th, 2010 03:27 am

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john63

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Perhaps a little *reverse psychology* will help...

It's NOT the wood floor.

Wood flooring has absolutely no impact on how a front load washer behaves during the spin cycle.

Front load washers are smooth as silk during the spin cycle on wood flooring as on concrete flooring

That john63 guy seems fixated on WOOD FLOORS---- what gives with that ??? Like--what in tarnation does THAT have anything to do with how my washer performs???

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Posted: Wed Oct 27th, 2010 03:38 am

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Your load is unbalanced........ The machine cannot balance one pair of jeans and some socks, shorts....................That is a light unbalanced load...........The machine normally needs a load of "like" water retention items...I.E. You cannot put a load of socks, underwear, t-shirts and a pair of sweatpants..............There is three baffles/fins inside, the load needs to be equally distributed between the baffles/fins..........If your load of bath towels is out-of-balance, add more towels..... In your instructions, it will tell you that the machine will start to spin but if it detects an out-of -balance , it will stop and tumble back and forth, trying to redistribute the load.... Also, it will tell you that some loads, you will need to open the door and move the load front to rear or rear to front............Say a bathrobe is tangled up with a pair of sweatpants.................

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Posted: Wed Oct 27th, 2010 03:52 am

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john63

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certified tech group 51 wrote: Your load is unbalanced........ The machine cannot balance one pair of jeans and some socks, shorts....................That is a light unbalanced load...........The machine normally needs a load of "like" water retention items...I.E. You cannot put a load of socks, underwear, t-shirts and a pair of sweatpants..............There is three baffles/fins inside, the load needs to be equally distributed between the baffles/fins..........If your load of bath towels is out-of-balance, add more towels..... In your instructions, it will tell you that the machine will start to spin but if it detects an out-of -balance , it will stop and tumble back and forth, trying to redistribute the load.... Also, it will tell you that some loads, you will need to open the door and move the load front to rear or rear to front............Say a bathrobe is tangled up with a pair of sweatpants.................

<laughing>

Until we know if the washer is on a *concrete floor*---then this can be posted.

Part of the problem here is that nearly everyone casually dismisses the paramount importance of the type of floor that the front load washer is on.

To be fair---I was *precisely ignorant* of this until I confronted an LG training instructor about this problem with front loaders back in 2003. To his credit he explained the entire dynamics of how the washer needs to be on a SOLID (I repeat--s-o-l-i-d) floor---as in CONCRETE FLOOR.

All of this changed when Samsung introduced their VRT system in 2008 followed by LG (True Balance).

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Posted: Wed Oct 27th, 2010 04:00 am

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P.S. I think your machine is O.K...............

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Posted: Wed Oct 27th, 2010 02:23 pm

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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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VitaminWater wrote:
Samurai Appliance Repair Man wrote: Make a video of the washer while it's running so that we can listen to the noise. Different noises correspond to different problems with the washer; for example, bearings, struts, cabinet noise, etc. Upload your video to YouTube and post the link here so that we can watch/listen.

Did as you requested, any comment?

What's the answer to Master John's very pertinent question, "What type of floor is this washer on?"

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Posted: Wed Oct 27th, 2010 06:15 pm

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kdog
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It is indeed on a wooden floor and is the crux of endless service calls for the very same reason - I have actually stood there trying to explain this unable to string a sentance together as I vibrate along wit the rest of the room - wooden trusses WILL transmit vibration - end of story

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Posted: Wed Nov 10th, 2010 11:51 pm

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VitaminWater
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It's in laundry room indoors, not in garage or basement, and the floor is wood and the comments about it make sense.

I had a large load, but they tangled up and machine had difficulty balancing. It vibrated so much that even the top of 500 lbs water heater in laundry room vibrated.

It's German made and all, but after all, it was an old model clearance model and it appears to be poor design after all.

It has three fixed cement counter weights. Two at the front, one at the rear top with the whole basket sitting four shocks on bottom and hung by two springs on top.

It actually has absolutely nothing to actually correct vibration, so its essentially like someone jumping up and down on the back of a pickup truck and struts and dampers dissipating the vibration.

Samsung's VRT and LG true balance uses balls in bearing race that move to lighter side and dynamically apply counterweight actually reducing unbalance at the rotating drum level. It's very much similar to fast CD-ROM drive that uses balls to compensate for out of balance discs.

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Posted: Wed Nov 17th, 2010 03:16 pm

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sounds like you did much research. too bad it was after you did your shopping.

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