1992 Whirlpool CA2762XWN1 direct drive topload washer - agitates but no spin cycle - The Laundry Appliance Repair Forum - Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help - ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums

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1992 Whirlpool CA2762XWN1 direct drive topload washer - agitates but no spin cycle

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Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 12:09 pm

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stainlesssteel
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It pumps water, agitates but no spin cycle....instead, at that point in the cycle i get a lovely mechanical violent, complaining, leave-me-alone sound! As you'd expect, clothes are clean but still wet at end of cycle.

I did a quick search on the fixitnow Laundry Appliance Repair Forum for Whirlpool and found about 15 posts; having spent about 1 hour skimming them it sounds like the clutch is bad, and there is a post showing how to replace it.

Before I dive in, does this sound totally off base?

I might post a camcorder audio/video file of this, as one guy did before (link no longer works) if it helps...

Some history: this washer was put into service 30Dec1992, it's a coin operated washer for a 9 unit apartment building. Motor to transmission coupler was replaced 13Feb2007 by service tech--took him all of 25 minutes. At the time i marveled at the tech's incredible expertise....I see now that coupler replacement is 1 beer or whatever on the difficulty scale....

Last edited on Sat Feb 20th, 2010 12:11 pm by stainlesssteel

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Posted: Sat Feb 20th, 2010 12:30 pm

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appl.tech.29501
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Clutch isn't what you seek, it doesn't make noise when it fails....however the coupler will but if it were the coupler it wouldn't wash either. Either you have a bad transmission or drive block. Start by removing the agitator and have a look...someone can probably post a picture of what it shoud look like for you to compare.

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Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 08:56 am

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stainlesssteel
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Thanks appl.tech.29501. Maybe I exaggerated the noise.

Here's a video of the noise the washer makes when attempting a spin cycle. Since my original post, there is now a burning smell and the AC power cord is warm. I had a repair tech diagnose it as a bad motor and clutch.

In the video I show how holding the agitator makes it stop readily...doesn't this suggest a bad clutch?

Also, this Whirlpool is a direct drive model...can anyone describe what its transmission would consist of?

I'm leaning toward ordering a new motor and clutch ($98 total new, free shipping no tax, on eBay, about half local parts store's price) and trying to figure out how to install the clutch. Normally I'd just get a new one but I want a front load water saver and the only coin op model I know of is only 3.1 cubic ft, vs. the old one's 3.2.

Any opinions on whether I'm crazy? OK, crazier than my base level insanity, for attempting repair?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOX8nGV4nbk
[replaced link with HD video link 12March2010]

Last edited on Sat Mar 13th, 2010 12:12 am by stainlesssteel

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Posted: Tue Mar 9th, 2010 12:16 pm

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Budget Appliance Repair
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When in spin, with the agitator spinning, is the silver clutch disk just above the transmission spinning? (you almost got a picture of the clutch bell but stopped and moved away to a different shot angle before you got a video of what would have given a better clue).

If the silver clutch bell/disk is spinning then the transmission is probably ok and the most likely cause of the noise is a broken end on the brake release cam lever, (the white plastic cam on the bottom of the basket drive that the clutch engages to release the brake and turn the basket).

If the clutch bell isn't turning and it's making that noise then most likely problem is a stripped out main spin gear inside the transmission, (I really doubt that is the problem, I don't believe you would see the agitator spinning if that were the problem).

In the video I show how holding the agitator makes it stop readily...doesn't this suggest a bad clutch?
No, that doesn't suggest a bad clutch. When in spin the agitator just takes a free ride, (usually spinning along with the spin basket), and can be stopped by hand. Friction is the only thing turning the agitator shaft when in spin mode.

Last edited on Tue Mar 9th, 2010 12:19 pm by Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 11:11 am

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stainlesssteel
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Willie - Thanks.

When in (attempted) spin cycle, the silver clutch disk thing is definitely moving. I shot more video showing this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaKwz8Fgi38
[replaced link with HD video link 12March2010]

So it's the basket drive. I found a photo of it (attached below). It looks like this "white plastic cam on the bottom of the basket drive that the clutch engages to release the brake and turn the basket" is built into the basket drive assembly.

Do I need to buy the entire ten pound 18" steel shaft assembly to get that plastic piece? The basket drive is a $74 part. ($115 at local parts store)

Photo: do search on part #285792 at

http://stores.ebay.com/HVAC-Appliance-Parts-Supplies

Thanks for the clarification on agitator stoppable by hand does not imply bad clutch. I also found the "transmission" of this direct drive washer on a service diagram.

Attachment: basketdrivesupplystuf.jpg (Downloaded 707 times)

Last edited on Fri Mar 12th, 2010 05:36 pm by stainlesssteel

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Posted: Wed Mar 10th, 2010 12:05 pm

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Budget Appliance Repair
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If the brake release cam is broken, (I can almost guarantee you that is what you're going to find), it can be replaced without replacing complete basket drive or even removing basket drive from machine.

Just remove transmission and remove the c-clip at the bottom that holds the brake release cam to the basket drive.

If you order a new clutch it will come with a new brake release cam and I'm pretty sure you can order just the brake release cam by itself.

EDITED TO ADD: It looks like you can't get just the brake release cam by itself. When you look up the release lever it converts to a clutch lining kit that contains the release lever. You don't want to purchase just the lining kit, order the complete clutch, (Part# 285785), it's $1.00 cheaper to get the complete clutch kit.

Clutch lining kit only, (includes brake release lever), part# 285790
http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=2690

Complete clutch kit, (includes brake release lever), part# 285785
http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=2670

Last edited on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 12:25 pm by Budget Appliance Repair

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Posted: Thu Mar 11th, 2010 12:02 am

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stainlesssteel
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WIllie - So the white part you're describing is the "driver, brake cam" #285790 (photo below shows the repairclinic.com complete clutch kit; the only white piece there looks like the brake cam driver). Thanks for the clarification; I'd guessed you meant the white piece at the base of the basket brake and drive tube.

Cool. I've ordered the complete clutch kit #285785, as well as a new motor.

Great that I can do all this from underneath, rather than needing any access from above, which would require buying a spanner nut removal tool...

Attachment: clutchkit.jpg (Downloaded 693 times)

Last edited on Thu Mar 11th, 2010 12:16 am by stainlesssteel

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Posted: Thu Mar 11th, 2010 08:36 am

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Tinbendr
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Be sure and take a look at the motor/trans coupling. Pull it off and look at it on the motor side. These machines (I do work at a laundry that has 30 of them.) tend to split the coupling from the shaft out to the edge. The machine will make the sound in your video. The newer couplings have a metal ring instead of just plastic.

Good luck!

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Posted: Thu Mar 11th, 2010 09:07 am

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stainlesssteel
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Tinbendr - This presents a paradox...the agitator cycle works just fine, as shown in the video, and doesn't make the clicking card-in-a-bicycle-wheel sound (though there is a burning smell like an overloaded motor). This suggests the coupler is OK, as well as it having been replaced fairly recently (March 2007). I don't know if it was the newer metal reinforced one.

But you're saying the clicking sound this machine is making during the spin cycle, as heard on my video, is also the sound of a broken coupler. Hmm...

I'll check the coupler when i get in there to change the parts. Thanks for the observation.

For reference and kicks I attached a photo of the old #285753 vs. new metal reinforced #285753A coupler.

Attachment: coupleroldvsnew.jpg (Downloaded 680 times)

Last edited on Thu Mar 11th, 2010 09:48 am by stainlesssteel

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Posted: Thu Mar 11th, 2010 12:24 pm

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Budget Appliance Repair
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There's no way your couplers the problem in this case. As you said the agitation cycle would not be working as well as it is and also there would be no way the agitator would be spinning in spin if coupler was broken.

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Posted: Fri Mar 12th, 2010 03:41 am

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Tinbendr
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Budget Appliance Repair wrote: There's no way your couplers the problem in this case. As you said the agitation cycle would not be working as well as it is and also there would be no way the agitator would be spinning in spin if coupler was broken.

Yep, Willie's right. If the coupler was broken, it would not work at all. I missed that in your description. I was just focusing on the sound.

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Posted: Tue Mar 30th, 2010 07:33 am

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stainlesssteel
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Willie, you're close...I found a problem--brake cam driver (white Teflon looking part in service manual scan below) was not broken, but apparently had its retaining ring pop off. When i tried to pull out the driveshaft/transmission out of the basket drive tube from the bottom (while washer laid on its side), the whole assembly came out. The brake cam driver was loose in the clutch pan, and I found a retaining ring on the floor under the washing machine that looks like part #90368 below. The underside of the old brake cam driver was grooved out, as if the retaining ring had worn an indentation in it before coming off. I shot video of this--might post later.

Anyone seen this sorta thing before?

I replaced the clutch anyway, but I think all it needs is this retaining ring.

Haven't put it back together yet...have to figure out how to get this retaining ring back on....it's off to Home Depot.

I also am not sure if the driveshaft inside the basket drive tube needs extra grease...i'm planning to use white lithium grease. Anyone have better alternatives? I'm not clear if the driveshaft actually spins within the basket drive tube or does the driveshaft drive the drive tube only via the clutch and brake? If just via clutch/brake I guess grease is there only to make assembly easier? And there's some motor oil like substance where the drive tube passes thru the outer tub...should I add more? More what?

Also, the driveshaft has some rings that look like wear from some grooves inside the basket drive tube....wonder if this caused the retaining ring to come off?

Coupler was functional.

BTW I used applianceassistant.com's excellent DVD (annoying non-silenceable music though) on servicing Whirlpool direct drive washers to figure out how to get at the clutch. Samurai Forums are good, but well-lit, sharp, pausable video has big advantages over text and stills. Turns out that to remove the clutch I DID need to remove the spanner nut from above, as well as the motor etc. from underneath. This was clear from the DVD, but not from the scenarios I laboriously piecemealed together from various forum posts.

What i'd really like is a display of the clutch and transmission motion during regular agitation vs. spin vs. braking. Ideally, a transparent window in the clutch and basket drive tube...expensive but would be a powerful tool for understanding. 2nd best: 3-D animation. And i still am not clear on where the brake drive cam engages in the clutch.

Attachment: brakecam.jpg (Downloaded 642 times)

Last edited on Thu Apr 1st, 2010 07:44 am by stainlesssteel

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Posted: Tue Mar 30th, 2010 08:30 am

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RegUS_PatOff
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this may be helpful

STUDY COURSE (DIRECT DRIVE MODELS)
UNDERSTANDING AUTOMATIC WASHER:
• MECHANICAL COMPONENTS

787772 #4

Understanding Automatic Washer

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Posted: Wed Mar 31st, 2010 07:19 pm

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stainlesssteel
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RegUS - thanks, that Whirlpool educational PDF is great background on what's inside the washer's gearcase, though it's essentially impossible to follow the explanation on how the transmission shifts between agitator and spin modes.

BTW I noticed someone on eBay named salprem is trying to sell this free PDF as a "Whirlpool Top Load Direct Drive Washer Repair Manual" for $4.95. It's not the Whirlpool printed repair manual (repairclinic.com part 1170635), it's the same Whirlpool study course PDF RegUS links to above. Slime.

Last edited on Wed Mar 31st, 2010 11:11 pm by stainlesssteel

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Posted: Thu Apr 1st, 2010 07:36 am

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stainlesssteel
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I tried reattaching the brake cam driver's retaining ring. Washer ran the first wash spin cycle, and burning smell went away, so motor apparently was just fine. I was ready to declare victory, but at start of rinse spin cycle, it popped back off. Back to massive clatter.

Note also the top of the old brake cam driver had its two mounting protrusions sheared off.

Maybe the groove for the retaining ring at the end of the basket drive tube just wear out? Or maybe the retaining ring edges are worn somehow such that it won't stay in?

I looked at repair clinic.com's replacement, the retaining ring looks like it might stay in better. but the old retaining ring lasted 16 years.

http://www.repairclinic.com/SSPartDetail.aspx?s=t-ca2762xwn1-%3d%3dc257i470682&PartID=470682

I'm thinking about just trying a new basket drive tube, about $86.

Attachment: retainingring.jpg (Downloaded 606 times)

Last edited on Thu Apr 1st, 2010 07:45 am by stainlesssteel

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Posted: Thu Apr 1st, 2010 12:28 pm

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Budget Appliance Repair
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That picture you have posted is not the brake cam driver retaining ring, that's the clutch housing/bell retaining ring.

The brake cam driver retaining ring is ref#16 in the picture on post# 12, Part# 90368

http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=1388892

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Posted: Thu Apr 1st, 2010 10:15 pm

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stainlesssteel
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Thanks Willie...repairclinic.com had labeled part 470682 "Retainer ring kit, brake & drive tube"...clutch retainer ring kit woud have been more accurate.

I can't see how the retaining ring stays on the end of the basket drive tube.

I've taken closeups of the basket drive tube end, to which the retaining ring is supposed to stay attached. They show there is no groove for the retaining ring to seat into, and only the slightest taper outward toward the tube's end.

I tried pulling axially on the brake cam driver...the slightest force snaps the retaining ring off....no wonder it kept coming off.

Does this basket drive tube end look different from new ones? Or has it somehow worn, or is there a missing flange at the end (not according to parts list)???

Attachment: ring.jpg (Downloaded 590 times)

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Posted: Fri Apr 2nd, 2010 03:41 am

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appl.tech.29501
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your spin tube is shot....there should be a groove in it...its worn down...fairly common problem.

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