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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > Sub Zero 561 Refrigerator |
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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > Sub Zero 561 Refrigerator |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist 
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I have a Sub Zero 561 Refrigerator that needs some help. The freezer side is cold, but will not freeze bottles of water. The refigerator side is warm. What should I take apart first to start debugging this thing? -Chris Attachment: SubZero Fridge Inside.jpg (Downloaded 180 times) |
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certified tech group 51 Sublime Master of Appliantology 
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Remove top front grill ( two or three fasteners, veiwed fromm below grill) Is the condenser fan operating? Is the condenser coils clean and clear? The condenser fan operating at the correct R.P.M.? |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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From what I recall, the copper coils and the 2 verticle capsules (filters/driers?) are clean. Where do I find the condenser fan? Do I have to take the back of the fridge off? Attachment: SubZero Fridge.jpg (Downloaded 177 times) Last edited on Mon Apr 21st, 2008 01:33 pm by sushimaster |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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The condenser fan is by the compressors above the fridge side, you may be able to hear it Depending on fridge serial number, the condenser fan should run all the time. I have the Sub Zero 500 series service manual PDF that I could email to you 5 MB. manual sent Last edited on Mon Apr 21st, 2008 04:14 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The fridge sounds like it is running all of the time. I hear a humming sound continuously from it. I do not know if it is the condenser or the fan. I'll check it tonight. |
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Cactus Bob Sublime Master of Appliantology 
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CONDENSER FAN is on top there the coils are . if its running its at the correct speed ..... if i was going to guess . your low on freon for some reason the 561 gets low . if you have it topped off you get a year or two before its low again . the box is to old to be spending a lot of money on it ....i have a dozen or two i work on in my route and there all getting compressor failures and some have leaks ....... THERE JUST FALLING APART ! good luck on yours |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Keep in mind this was "free" on Craiglist...it would be great to get it working on the cheap... the Cherry Doors are sweet! |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Here is the serial number information. Attachment: Sub Zero Serial Number.JPG (Downloaded 170 times) |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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That would be PDF page 146: condenser fan is wired directly, runs constantly WIRING DIAGRAM & SCHEMATIC - 561 Madison/Phoenix Production From Serial #M816264/P725322 to #M/P1004775, Except Between #M965470 to #M965869 Last edited on Tue Apr 22nd, 2008 12:28 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Condenser Coils: The entire top of the fridge was covered with dust. I cleaned most of it up. The coils had dust trapped everywhere. Also, whoever cleaned it previously crushed several of the aluminum fins. Attachment: DSC01681.JPG (Downloaded 154 times) Last edited on Fri May 2nd, 2008 01:42 pm by sushimaster |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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*** VIEW IS FROM REAR OF UNIT *** Condenser Fan: this appears to be working correctly. After monitoring it, it does not run constantly as originally thought. Attachment: DSC01678.JPG (Downloaded 155 times) Last edited on Fri May 2nd, 2008 01:44 pm by sushimaster |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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*** VIEW IS FROM REAR OF UNIT *** Left - Service Refrigerator Compressor: the Refrigerator Heat Exchanger (4250980) (copper line coming out and going into the fridge section) was slightly colder than lukewarm Right - Service Freezer Compressor : the Freezer Heat Exchanger (94250990) was cold (copper line coming out and going into the freezer section) Both compressors were running when I initially started the unit. From what I recall, both compressors ran. The freezer compressor turned off first. Then the refrigerator compressor. The fan continued to run for a while and then turned off. Attachment: DSC01679.JPG (Downloaded 155 times) Last edited on Fri May 2nd, 2008 01:51 pm by sushimaster |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I replaced Door Hinge w/Pin, Bottom LH (3540430) for the freezer size and tightened everything up so that the freezer door would operate properly. I left the fridge running overnight. I put a piece of tape on the right switch in the refrigerator section. I was not sure it was being "turned on" when the door closed. In the morning the freezer side was very cold, but nothing froze (1 Gallon of Milk, 1 quart OJ, 6 16oz bottles of water). I could hear and feel the air circulating in that section. I put 3 bottles of 16 oz water in the top, middle, and bottom sections of the fridge and left it on "7". The fridge side was maybe slightly lower than room temparature in the morning. I could hear and feel the air circulating in that section. I also noticed the piece of copper sticking out of the bottom of the fridge was cold to the touch. What can I check next at this point? Do I need to get this system recharged with freon? Attachment: DSC01682.JPG (Downloaded 154 times) Last edited on Fri May 2nd, 2008 01:18 pm by sushimaster |
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certified tech group 51 Sublime Master of Appliantology
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The coils on top is the condensor coils..... The coils behind the rear panels is/are evaporator coils... Go to the the store and purchase two decent themometers , one for each side..You will need them to dial in the cold contols ...(plus to tell us the real temps.)You also said which compressor is which, but in the pic. can't if view is from the rear or the front. .....viewed from front freezer comp is on the left...... f.f. is on the right... .Remove the fresh food side rear panel and what do you see (when it's running at least over night) We are looking for a fuuly frosted evap... If low on refrigerant charge..the best would be a complete recharge. The leak will in the evap (Weak link in the system) You can change it easily done....Or you can install a can of ACR super seal after complete evac of the system. If you have a tank of dry nitrogen W/ gauges.. you can pressurize the system and start to look and listen for the leak(s).. repair ----- recharge-----Use appropriate refrigerant ( Freon is a trade name from ages ago) You can use R-414A to go in R-12 system ..... Just 80% of listed charge on data plate.... Keep us posted.... |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I adjusted the previous posts with your edits/comments. I'll get the thermometers tonight and continue debugging... Thank you  |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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How many Grille Spring(s) (3450120) does the 561 use? I have one attached to the unit. I thought it used 2. Can someone confirm either way for me? |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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How much refrigerant does the 561 hold? Is R-414a the best option to refill/recharge the system? What about R-414b or R-134a ? |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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from PDF page 106 of the nice manual, left column, first entry: MODEL 561 Prior To Serial # M/P1198140/P1213190 Prior to #M/P965470 and from #M/P965869 to #M/P1004775 Charge (R-12 Refrigerant) Refrigerator Freezer 7.0 oz. 8.0 oz. Last edited on Fri May 2nd, 2008 02:50 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Yes, that is for R-12. Do you use the same amounts for the other refrigerants (R-414a, R-414b, R-134a) ? What if I seal the system first with the previously mentioned "ACR Super Seal"? Do I add less refrigerant in that case? Last edited on Fri May 2nd, 2008 06:04 pm by sushimaster |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The refrigerator side has settled at 48 degrees Farenheight with a setting of 10. Attachment: DSC01705.JPG (Downloaded 100 times) Last edited on Mon May 5th, 2008 01:16 pm by sushimaster |
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certified tech group 51 Sublime Master of Appliantology
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Are these temps. with the cold controls set mid-way or max. setting..... Do you have all the correct equipment to do the full repair? The oldest repair for using Super seal is three years ago and still going...It is like a radiator sealer, the sealer is still in your system flowing with refrierant, ready to seal leaks as they form....The can is 1 ounce in volume. If you use R-414a ......you use 80% of your recommended charge........I.E. 10 oz. at 80% = 8 oz.. Acr is 1 oz..... Try 7 oz. of refrg...+ 1oz. ACR is about correct. you will be watching the evaporator to make sure you get a fully frosted evaporator.. You may need to adjust a bit for the best results... Do not cut corners on the repair.... This repair in the real world $300.00.. Normal evac and recharge is $250 but the ACR is about $50.00 a can..........On the flip side a new evaporator is a bout $100.00 that repair with evap replacement is $550.00 P.S. thanks for the temp. readings, now we know where we stand....freezer should be O to +5 deg. the fresh food section should be 36 to 38 deg.. |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The green wire (ground) to the dial in the refrigerator was broken, I fixed that. I made 2 different attempts at monitoring the refrigerator. One day the setting was set to 7. Recently I set it to 10 and that's what you see in the pictures. Attachment: DSC01685.JPG (Downloaded 105 times) Last edited on Sat May 3rd, 2008 02:55 pm by sushimaster |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The evaporator coils in the refrigerator were completely bare. There was no ice buildup at all. Attachment: DSC01688.JPG (Downloaded 105 times) |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The fan in the refrigerator side is working correctly. Attachment: DSC01686.JPG (Downloaded 104 times) |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Where are the "cold controls" you are speaking of? There is obviously a dial in the refrigerator. Also, the manual does not appear to show a small relay and piece of copper below the lower left hinge on the fridge to the left of the drain pan. Do you know what that is or what it does? Attachment: DSC01696.JPG (Downloaded 103 times) |
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certified tech group 51 Sublime Master of Appliantology
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That the valve for your ice maker... The cold controls are in your last post/ picture. Tells the comressors when to cycle on /off. I the one pic. you said ice build up, you want a frosted evap. Last edited on Sat May 3rd, 2008 06:48 pm by certified tech group 51 |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I played with the freezer settings some more. I turned it up from 1 to 5. The temperature dropped to 18 degrees overnight. As for the refrigerator, the best it has done is 54 degrees now at a setting of 10. I also put all of the shelves into both sides to see if that improved the air flow and subsequently the temperature. ... My question is, what are the small nozzles on the end of each of the compressors? Is that where I would recharge the system? |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The freezer side has settled at 18 degrees Farenheight with a setting of 5. Attachment: DSC01706.JPG (Downloaded 91 times) Last edited on Mon May 5th, 2008 01:18 pm by sushimaster |
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certified tech group 51 Sublime Master of Appliantology
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If you mean the short stubs that have a tire fitting for air on the end? That is a 'Schrader type valve" at the end, that is where the factory charged the system to start with.... To do this job correctly do you have all of the correct equipment???? You will need a torch capable of temps. up to 1800 deg.. vacuum pump, four way manifold, (with hoses) O-zi bag to catch old refig. ( Not much in system.. but being a certifed tech. I'm suppose to follow all the regs.) , charging scale, (weight or dial-a-charge) all the various hand tools, connectors I.E. new filter dryer, (with access port), tank of dry nitrgen (if you want to check for leaks) AND most of all the correct refrierant, you will need a E.P.A. certificate or someone who can aquire said refrigerant........I think your data plate stated 8 oz. of charge...... also minor things that help.... welding bankets, cooling rags (to cool down your welds) spray bottle of water.... and just incase a fire exstinguisher........ AS for the freezer side you can dial the temp. in better, up one setting on freezer cold control. If you just want to add to the system , you will still need all the equipment, but the dry nitrgon and the torch......(plus a few less tools), add for a fully frosted evap....... If a customer want this job performed, I would inform them NO warranty on how long this will last.. there could be trapped contaminants still in the system..... |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I don't have any of the toys except for the fire extinguisher...  There is an appliance guy that I have used to fix other appliances, but he said he did not service Sub Zero. I could probably convince him to do the work for me though since I've been his customer for 6 years. Last edited on Mon May 5th, 2008 03:26 pm by sushimaster |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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So you're never gonna believe this one. I went to the auto parts store and picked up an R-12 to R-134a conversion kit for about $20. I hooked it up to the nozzle on the refrigerator compressor and gave it a few squirts up to 25psi. I couldn't tell if I actually put anything in or not, so I screwed the cap back on the nozzle and went to do other stuff for the day. About four hours later I was moving some frozen water bottles to the fridge side to thaw out. I picked up some of the Mike's Hard Lemonade and it was cold! What!? I looked at the thermometer and it said 32 degrees. Cool! So I cleaned the unit up a bit more and the ground wire for the 2 compressors came loose. I tightened that back up and put the top on and the front grill. The freezer is reading about 0-2 degrees right now. The refrigerator is now reading 42 degrees. Also, the fans in either side do not appear to be running at all. Did this box go into sleep mode? |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Condenser fan runs constantly. Each evporator fan is controlled by it's cold control. Last edited on Mon May 12th, 2008 03:45 am by RegUS_PatOff |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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This morning I measured the following: Freezer: 4 degrees F (Set on 7) Refrigerator: 34 degrees F (Set on 8) -Chris |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Last night I measured the following: Freezer: 0 degrees F (Set on 7) Refrigerator: 30 degrees F (Set on 7) The condenser fan continues to run all of the time. What do I need to fix in order to get this to stop? Or does it need to run all of the time. If that is the case, then is it possible to run a more power efficient fan on it? -Chris Last edited on Thu May 15th, 2008 02:34 pm by sushimaster |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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sushimaster wrote: ... The condenser fan continues to run all of the time. What do I need to fix in order to get this to stop? Or does it need to run all of the time. If that is the case, then is it possible to run a more power efficient fan on it? The Condenser Fan on the early 561's ran all the time. The later 561's used a dual coil Fan Relay that powered the fan only when either compressor was running. click on picture (link fixed)  You could use a dual coil relay or (2) single coil relays. Last edited on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 02:00 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Thank you. I have been meaning to get to that. Also, I noticed during the summer that condensation (to the point of dripping water) was building up in the upper right corner of the fridge near the overhead light. Also, there appears to be some condensation that accumulates underneath the glass shelves. Is this an issue with the seal around the door or something else? Last edited on Mon Oct 27th, 2008 01:29 pm by sushimaster |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Where specifically does this relay go? This fridge weighs a ton! I want to make sure I don't have to move it if possible before I install this part. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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sushimaster wrote: ...Also, I noticed during the summer that condensation (to the point of dripping water) was building up in the upper right corner of the fridge near the overhead light. Also, there appears to be some condensation that accumulates underneath the glass shelves.That would be the first thing to check. Try the Dollar Bill test, run a dollar bill around the entire Door Gasket. It should be a little snug. sushimaster wrote: Where specifically does this relay go? ..above the Fridge, between the 2 Compressors. If it's the newer Dual Coil Relay (so that the Evaporator Fan dosen't run all the Time), you'll have to do some re-wiring. |
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tallone Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I've been searching for a manual for my 532 Sub-Zero fridge. Is there any chance you could email me your .pdf file? Thanks a million! Steve |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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if you could send me your email address .. |
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tallone Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I'll sent my address shortly, thanks. Last edited on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 03:33 pm by tallone |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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tallone wrote: My email address is; biff@..... com, thanks again for your help! manual sent Last edited on Tue Dec 2nd, 2008 02:37 pm by RegUS_PatOff |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The fridge is still running well since you guys helped me out.  Thank you! I plan on replacing the relay this week. |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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My fridge is making some loud clicking noises when the condensors turn on now. It just started recently (last 2 weeks). I know the power company has been replacing the underground lines and boxes/transformers in my development. Is this just normal wear and tear? Could a power surge or something damaged the fridge? There were a few scheduled power outages due to the work. Considering the age of the fridge (21 yrs)... I don't want it to burn up or something!  Please advise.. Thanks -Sushimaster P.S. Meanwhile my beer is still cold in the fridge! |
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certified tech group 51 Sublime Master of Appliantology
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When the condensers turn on?? Maybe the compressors turn on .......Locate the click noise, please..... |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology 
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Am i understanding correctly that you topped off the r12 charge with 134a? If so, im amazed its working, that is a major nono. The oils used with r12 and 134a aren't compatible with each other. The noise may be the compressor/s falling apart from the bad mix |
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sushimaster Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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What do you mean by falling apart? Do you mean there is something mechanically wrong (parts breaking/not working) or physically wrong with the integrity of the tubing, compressor walls, etc. ? |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology
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i cant say for sure because ive never tried mixing refrigerants like that, but i imagine it would be hard on the bearings inside the compressor. you really should try to pin down where the sound is coming from |
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