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Compressor will not start, humms  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 04:13 pm
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JJ 109
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Kenmore SxS 59658642890

Sometimes the compressor will start and run fine, then if it cycles it may or may not start again.  Usually once its unplugged and sits it will run the first time but if I unplug and try again it may or may not run.


Replaced PTC relay, no luck

Compressor readings :
    R-C: 2.2 ohms, spec sheet- 1.88=/- 10 %
   
    S-C: 8.7 ohms, spec sheet -8.7+/- 10/%



From current probe-18-20 amps,   LRA -25.5 amps


Seems like good readings.


Please help?

Last edited on Sun Dec 30th, 2007 08:13 pm by JJ 109

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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 06:38 pm
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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JJ 109 wrote:

From current probe-18-20 amps,   LRA -25.5 amps


Seems like good readings.



If you made this current measurement while the compressor was running (as opposed to right at start up), then these are NOT good readings. Would indicate a current path from the windings to ground has opened up and is leaking current. Do tell.



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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 08:11 pm
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JJ 109
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I took the readings while it was humming or stalled. 

I could make a running reading as well if that would help.

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 Posted: Sun Dec 30th, 2007 09:07 pm
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If you have brand new factory start devices on and it will only start cold, you will probably find that pump is on the way out.  If you do get er (that's southern for the Compressor) running, take an amp reading and you will probably find it is hi.    



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 Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 04:57 pm
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JJ 109
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I plugged it in, and as it has in the past it fires right up.  The running current started at around 3.5 A and tapered off to about 2.5 A.

I unplugged it after a minute or so and then plugged it back in and it would not start.  The current was about 18.5 A again.    WTF????


Is it possible the new PTC/Relay is also bad?  Is there a way to check it?

This thing is driving me nuts.

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 Posted: Mon Dec 31st, 2007 06:42 pm
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The locked rotor position of this unit will draw the 18 and change reading you are seeing.  This is the condition you are reading as the compressor hums away that awful song of death.  The correct reading for a compressor on this unit would be around 1.2-1.5ish as it runs along.  The 2.5 you read after the system fired up and ran for a while is the sign of a compressor failing.  You will need a new pump my Amber Bock drinking friend.  Sorry.  As a tech, whenever I have to replace a relay overload on a unit I always monitor the amp draw for a while (if she does start up).  If I would of read the 2.5 you did I would of told the consumer your pump is on the way out, it's guaranteed till I push it back into it's place.  If a warranty situation I order one right there, if COD, I provide the new quote.      



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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2008 12:44 pm
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JJ 109
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I guess deep down, I felt it was bad but before I scrap it I wanted an opinion of a pro.  The readings were so close to normal, at least to my limited experience. 

Well I guess I need to decide if I want to fix it or buy new.  I saw a compressor for 200-250 but I can buy a clearance model for around 500. 

Thanx so much for the advice

Last edited on Tue Jan 1st, 2008 12:46 pm by JJ 109

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 Posted: Tue Jan 1st, 2008 03:56 pm
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JJ 109 wrote: I plugged it in, and as it has in the past it fires right up.  The running current started at around 3.5 A and tapered off to about 2.5 A.

I unplugged it after a minute or so and then plugged it back in and it would not start.  The current was about 18.5 A again.    WTF????


Is it possible the new PTC/Relay is also bad?  Is there a way to check it?

This thing is driving me nuts.
You can not unplug and replug right back in, the compressor will not start that quick.  Unplug for at least 15 minutes before you plug back in.  It could also be the cold control is trying to start back up too soon.  Let it rest for at least 15 minutes, plug it in, and if it starts and runs for a few minutes, unplug it again for 15 minutes and then plug it in again and see if it starts and runs ok.  Try it this way several times and if it will start and run this way, the compressor may be good.  You could also try a three in one hard start kit, if the compressor is having starting problems, you may be able to squeeze a few more months or years out of it that way.  Good luck.Himeros

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 09:38 pm
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JJ 109
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"Let it rest for at least 15 minutes, plug it in, and if it starts and runs for a few minutes, unplug it again for 15 minutes and then plug it in again and see if it starts and runs ok. Try it this way several times and if it will start and run this way, the compressor may be good. "
If I let it sit it will start.  The problem is I cannot depend on it to restart if the doors are opened and closed a lot.  Dont want ot fill with food and have it not re-start.

This compressor does not use a capacitor, rather a PTC/relay with a dual winding motor.  I dont think a three in one is appropriate is it?

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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 11:26 pm
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yes. you can use a 3 in 1, you will just have to do a little wiring.



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 Posted: Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 11:32 pm
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Using a 3-in-1 is last ditch only because it'll void your warranty on the compressor (if you still have one, I think it's 5 years on yours but TTH would know better). Generally, if a compressor won't run reliably on the OEM start device, it's on it's way out. Your current measurements seem to confirm this. So only do a 3-in-1 if a) you know the compressor is out of warranty and b) you accept the fact that you're living on borrowed time and start shopping for a new fridge.


Last edited on Wed Jan 2nd, 2008 11:33 pm by Samurai Appliance Repair Man



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 Posted: Thu Jan 3rd, 2008 01:55 am
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man wrote: Using a 3-in-1 is last ditch only because it'll void your warranty on the compressor (if you still have one, I think it's 5 years on yours but TTH would know better).True, but in most cases the labor and other cost of having the compressor replaced is more than the customer may want to spend.  Three in one may get this lazy compressor to work months or even years, best low cost repair, before calling the junk man and buying a new refrigerator.  Just my .02 worth.  If the compressor is making the death rattle, then forget about it.Himeros


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 Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 05:52 pm
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JJ 109
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Someone have a link to a 3 in 1.  I assume I would eliminate the PTC and thermal protector that is there now.


Could I just add a capacitor instead?  If so what size?

Last edited on Sat Jan 5th, 2008 05:57 pm by JJ 109

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 Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 11:18 pm
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They should be selling that part here in the parts department, or do a search on Google.  The three in one had a start capacitor, start relay, and overload protector in one package.  It also may be refered to as a hard start kit.  Attach the three in one, two black input wires to the two wires that go to the compressor.  Push the black, white, red connectors on to the compressor terminals.  If the compressor is ever going to work this should do it.    Good luck, and please let us know if that solves your problem.

Himeros

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 Posted: Sat Jan 5th, 2008 11:32 pm
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JJ 109 wrote:

Someone have a link to a 3 in 1.  I assume I would eliminate the PTC and thermal protector that is there now.


Could I just add a capacitor instead?  If so what size?


3 in 1 link

http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=965237

Last edited on Sun Jan 6th, 2008 09:21 am by



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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 08:56 pm
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ordered the 3 in 1.  I will post up results when I am done

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 Posted: Wed Jan 9th, 2008 10:14 pm
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I only use the 3 n 1 in last ditch scenerios(this has been hashed out on here quite a bit) and I recommend if you do use one to get a female terminal (we call them speaker style terminal) one that will slide onto the male prong on the overload and re-install it....I know that the 3 n 1 is supposed to have an overload in it but I don't trust it I like it being at the compressor...just clip the black wire and attatch the terminal and install as normal....just my 2 cents...good  luck



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 Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 08:52 pm
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JJ 109
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Installed the 3 in 1.  Got here fast.  Dosen't look like its going to work. :( It staterd the first time as usual.  Unplugged/replugged did not start the second or third.  Let sit for a couple minutes and tried and it started.  I am going to let it run for a while but don't have much faith it will be reliable.:(

Last edited on Thu Jan 10th, 2008 08:53 pm by JJ 109

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 Posted: Thu Jan 10th, 2008 09:19 pm
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Don't try to start the compressor immediately after it has been running (short-cycling) it will be nearly impossible even with the 3'n1. Give it at least 20 minutes between shutdown and restart. Test the whole thing under real-world conditions before you condemn it. Give us a running amp draw after the compressor has been running at least 2 minutes. Did you mention how old this unit is? Might have a 5-year warranty on the compressor.



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 Posted: Fri Jan 11th, 2008 12:03 am
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As AccApp stated, and so did I in an earlier post, YOU CAN NOT DO THIS, YOU MUST LET IT STAND FOR AT LEAST 20 MINUTES BEFORE REPLUGING.  You will destroy the 3 in1 and the compressor by not letting it rest.  After it runs for a few minutes, take a current reading, and post it here.  Good luck, and give it a chance.

Himeros

 

 

JJ 109 wrote:
Installed the 3 in 1.  Got here fast.  Dosen't look like its going to work. :( It staterd the first time as usual.  Unplugged/replugged did not start the second or third.  Let sit for a couple minutes and tried and it started.  I am going to let it run for a while but don't have much faith it will be reliable.:(

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