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Kenmore 80 Series HD 82380100 Agitator Noise  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 12:21 am
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knudsen
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Yikes! Sorry about that, it looked formatted in the preview :(



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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 03:10 am
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knudsen
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I got the parts figured out, tanks ;)



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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 03:44 am
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knudsen
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All the part numbers came off the catalog page you posted:


Seal looks dead-on to me:




Also the agitator shaft spring:




And the gear fork spring:





And looky what I found in the machine:



In this old goat, the ball is metal, but the part that hold it against the shaft is plastic. That part is available too, but I don't need it.

Now that I'm waiting on parts, I get the weekend off :D:P:D



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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 04:17 am
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Looks like its all down hill from here ;)

Great pictures by the way !



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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 04:50 am
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knudsen
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Yes sir, all down hill and thanks on photo's. I have more of the teardown, so I can remember how to get it back together, so if anyone is crazy enough (or desperate enough) to try this, I can share.

The cached web pages were confusing me on  the seal, but I see I ordered the right part, 3154. Is that for the top of the agitator shaft? This one (yuck!):



Found an o-ring in the tub, too:







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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 05:12 am
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This Thread is probably the most informative one on this particular machine design and problem that we have.....good stuff !



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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 06:11 am
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knudsen
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That's great! There must be a fair number of these still spinnin' since the parts are available.

The shaft is straight. I chucked it up and centered it to about .001" runout at the top end, near the seal wear:



Then measure it at the bottom end, about 5 or 6 inches from the bottom seal wear:




Should be good enough for government work.




The wear at the top is pretty rough. More rust than wear. Seems chrome plated, and I guess the chrome wore off and it rusted:



The bottom seal wear is a lot better, a few thousandths of an inch I guess:



To the right of the divot for the ball are three "wear" rings. Going left to right, the first is where the seal rides. I just measured it, about .005" deep. It should seal well after I smooth it out. The middle one is just crud, and it came out with WD40 and scotch bright while spinning it in the lathe. The one to the right looks machined, either by the gear fork, the edge of the gear hub, or by the factory (might have been a snap ring there, There were two I removed. In any event, it's below the seal, so it won't cause a leak.

An operational question: Am I right in thinking the top of the shaft never turns in relation to the part it seals to, that yucky black hole I posted earlier? Or does it rotate in it's seal? If it turns in the seal, I'll have to repair that nasty end of the shaft.



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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 12:36 pm
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The shaft you just laithed tuns inside the small rubber seal that linked you to.



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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 01:30 pm
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I see why you're not able to view the transmission parts breakdown that I attached.

It is a JPG attachment and GRASSHOPPERS can't see attachments I believe.

Maybe someone that can see it can save it somewhere and link the picture in a post like all your pictures are linked.

The ball under the agitator shaft, the slug or spacer as you call it goes on top of the ball.   Ball goes into agitator shaft hole, then spacer (domed side up if not flat), then agitator shaft rides on top of spacer.

And, WOW!!!  I thought most, if not all, of those internal transmission parts were no longer available.

The o-ring that you found in the tub is not for the agitator shaft, it looks to be the o-ring that is part of the agitator, (is this a two piece - clothes mover/auger style agitator?  If so, it goes between parts of the agitator).

Another thing, you removed the allen set screw when you where trying to remove the transmission.   If you backed it out to far it will have let the aluminum collar slide up the basket drive shaft and if you just tightened it back down it most likely will not be correct.   There is a hole in the basket drive shaft that the end of the allen screw locates and goes into.   When in the correct spot, (not just tightened into side of tube at any place), the top of the allen screw will be screwed down into the aluminum collar about 1/4", if you don't have it in the correct place and it is tightened down good and tight the head will be about flush with edge of aluminum collar.



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 Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 06:02 pm
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knudsen
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appl.tech.29501 wrote: The shaft you just laithed tuns inside the small rubber seal that linked you to.
Looks like I will need to machine that end of the shaft.

Budget Appliance Repair wrote:
I see why you're not able to view the transmission parts breakdown that I attached.

It is a JPG attachment and GRASSHOPPERS can't see attachments I believe.


If only I knew how easy it was to move up from wee grasshopper to become an Apprentice Appliantologist!

Maybe someone that can see it can save it somewhere and link the picture in a post like all your pictures are linked.
No need now, I've got it! A pic is worth a thousand words.

The ball under the agitator shaft, the slug or spacer as you call it goes on top of the ball. Ball goes into agitator shaft hole, then spacer (domed side up if not flat), then agitator shaft rides on top of spacer.
Roger that.

And, WOW!!! I thought most, if not all, of those internal transmission parts were no longer available.
I know, I expected no parts support. After this, with the timer and pump I replaced a few years ago, this baby should be good for another 30 years!

The o-ring that you found in the tub is not for the agitator shaft, it looks to be the o-ring that is part of the agitator, (is this a two piece - clothes mover/auger style agitator? If so, it goes between parts of the agitator).
It is two part, and I did have that apart early on, so it must have dropped out then..


Another thing, you removed the allen set screw when you where trying to remove the transmission. If you backed it out to far it will have let the aluminum collar slide up the basket drive shaft and if you just tightened it back down it most likely will not be correct. There is a hole in the basket drive shaft that the end of the allen screw locates and goes into. When in the correct spot, (not just tightened into side of tube at any place), the top of the allen screw will be screwed down into the aluminum collar about 1/4", if you don't have it in the correct place and it is tightened down good and tight the head will be about flush with edge of aluminum collar.
Thanks for that info. It doesn't look like it moved, and I tried to pull it and it didn't move, but I'll take the screw out and look in the hole and ensure it is lined up with hole in the basket drive shaft. It's almost out anyway. Of course, murphy's law, as soon as I got that screw loose, I went back to the computer, and read the warning not to loosen it :shock:

If someone has another page that shows the upper assemblies, the basket drive shaft and all that, could you post? If it's hard to do, don't bother though, I'm not in need yet. Might be later depending how I go with that rough upper end of the shaft. I might redesign the seal a little if I have to turn that end down too far.



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 Posted: Sun Jul 25th, 2010 04:40 pm
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It very well could last another 30 years if the intergity of the outer tub holds up..the only other "weak link" you have now is the tub seal.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 28th, 2010 05:39 pm
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knudsen
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Parts in! I'm kinda looking forward to getting her back together.

Very happy with parts from http://www.repairclinic.com/ and thank you for linking the seals and stuff. Also the catalog pages that enabled me to locate the parts. The spring kit, for the spring under the gear and drive-shaft, is a NOS Whirlpool part, and the others are either the same or high quality 3rd party. I'll have about $25 in parts, and that's only because I got in a hurry and had to place a 2nd order. Try beating that at your local supply.

I won't be able to start back on it until at least Friday night, maybe not until the weekend. I will post some assembly pics, in case someone wants to attempt this. IMHO: If you can replace a bicycle chain, or swap out your brake pads on your car, you can do this with basic hand tools. $25 vs. $250 for a new tranny, it's certainly worth a shot, if you have time. Honestly, a $250 tranny exceeds the value of a 30 year old washer, so to me, it's a no-brainer.



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 Posted: Wed Jul 28th, 2010 06:13 pm
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appl.tech.29501
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Yep I feel the same way. Most people whould rather just throw it away. The manufacturers love them for that attitude.



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 Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 06:02 am
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knudsen
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To be honest, I would consider replacing it, but I happened to be between paydays and I over-paid on a credit card and ran out of cash. I've got some much effort in it now, that I'll definitely finish it. If I had a rust free specimen, I would rebuilt the tranny in a heartbeat. They are built like a brick uhhh outhouse. If it were rust free, I would have no regrets. It's getting a little rust inside the tube where I can't reach it, so it's days are numbered for regular use, but I will use it as a rag washer. Probably will outlast me.

For many years I work for an engineering dept. I just did the service, but we joked about a chip that would time out after five years and break it. Those guys are too into quality and far to ethical to actually do it, but I'm seeing more and more of that in automotive stuff. Power windows are a good example. They are designed to last 7 or 8 years. If you don't take the door apart and lube them, you are in for a $250 to $500 per door repair at the dealer. It's a real PITA to get to them to lube. You can't see anything, and most people will mangle the plastic snaps for the door panel and like damage some of the interior. I'm getting my old Grand Marq (70K miles) ready to sell, and I had to replace the mechy on the drivers window for the second time, the passenger mechy, and I'm halfway done with one rear window, then I have to do the other. All the FoMoCo's I've worked on have aluminum pop rivets with a steel pin in the center, securing the mechy to the door and to the glass. Of course the drill wants to walk off the skinny little pin and when your drilling into the ones on the glass, of course it pops off the pin and goes right into the glass. I chipped the hole on one window, but never broke the glass, knock on wood. So they designed it to outlast the first owner if he's a good old boy and trades in regularly, and if he doesn't he get encouraged to trade it in by an expensive repair bill. Dealers' shop fixes it in their dead time with a $50 part and he resells it at the auction block. Doc's wonder why my back is so bad and ask what I did to it. I didn't do it, Ford did!

Anyway, I opened up the upper seal and wipe the white powder off it, and it is indeed a genuine whirlpool part. Cool. I'll bet the gear fork spring is too.

That upper seal, the one at the top of the shaft that goes up in the tower for the shaft/agitator (centerpost?), it's tapered on the outside, shaped like a stubby bullet. The taper goes down into the machine? It looks like it is designed to go in with the taper pointing up, the smaller end up, but the old one looks like the taper goes down into the machine. I tried to pull the old one out, but it's coming out in chunks, so I don't think I can tell.

On the catalog page you posted first, page 540, it looks similar to the seal in the middle of the page where it says "seal only." I believe if that were my seal, it should be turned over, then pressed into the seat, assuming the washer is standing upright. Is that correct? Taper down?



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 Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 06:15 am
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The taper goes up and the reinforced part goes into the tube flush with the top edge of the tube. Be careful putting it in, it's easy to tear the seal where the taper starts if your using an inappropriate size socket to tap it in.



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 Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 04:19 pm
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knudsen
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I'm stupid from lack of sleep. This way?

Forgive my crude drawing, I'm no graphic artist!:D

Attachment: sealDSCF2841.JPG (Downloaded 20 times)



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 Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 05:11 pm
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nope, the other way..you will need to remove the spanner nut and inner tub and drive block to install. if the drive block doesn't come out with the tub just tap it up from the bottom with a hammer and it will pop off.pry the old seal out and install the new



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 Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 08:20 pm
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Great, again I thanks you for the guidance. Spray that rascal down with Kroil tonight.

Last edited on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 08:21 pm by knudsen



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 Posted: Mon Aug 2nd, 2010 09:17 pm
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Is there any trick to getting the spanner nut off? I have soaked it in kroil (penetrating oil) and made a spanner wrench, tapped at it with a hammer. No go!

Is there any instructions or exploded view around for removing the inner tub and drive block?

Not sure what the drive block even is :? Is it the part with the set screw I shouldn't have removed?



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 Posted: Mon Aug 2nd, 2010 09:37 pm
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nope, the drive block is the part that the spanner nut screws down on. Its just stuck, a "tap" aint gonna cut it...you gotta knock the hell out of it over and over again. Sometimes they will not come off on a machine that old without cutting the nut off, but that should be your last resort. 2 lb. sledge works much better than a standard hammer.



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