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Frigidaire Gallery front loader, GLTF1040as0  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 11:35 pm
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jambatt
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Did you test for signal like I described?



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 Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 05:16 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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No, here is the problem I encountered;    


Going by the wiring diagram

C6.6 is a Black/Red wire

C10.5 is a Yellow/Black wire

I can see them on paper, but there is no Black/Red wire going to the 10 pin plug on the speed control board as it indicates.

 

Here is how my 10 plug looks from the wire side as it's plugged into the speed control.  This is from looking at my plug and not from any paperwork.

 

 

Attachment: 10PinPlug.jpg (Downloaded 54 times)

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 Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 05:18 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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and what the diagram shows me;

 

 

Attachment: C6.6_C10.5.JPG (Downloaded 54 times)

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 Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 05:35 pm
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RegUS_PatOff
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Will B. Fixed wrote: ...
C6.6 is a Black/Red wire

C10.5 is a Yellow/Black wire

C6 is the 6 Pin Plug

C10  is the 10 Pin Plug

(Service Manual page 46)

Last edited on Fri Oct 17th, 2008 05:37 pm by RegUS_PatOff



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 Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 06:34 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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RegUS_PatOff wrote: Will B. Fixed wrote: ...
C6.6 is a Black/Red wire

C10.5 is a Yellow/Black wire

C6 is the 6 Pin Plug

C10  is the 10 Pin Plug

(Service Manual page 46)

Ahhhhh, makes sense, Thanks for that...
Why do they have to make these things in print so confusing when they are intended to help....

That is the diagram that came with the washer above,  it seems to show the 6 pin plug coming from the motor and the rest seem to be from the 10 pin plug.   And of course, looking at that, C6.6 and C10.5 were not included in the set from the motor.

If you can see it from a DIY eye rather than from your professional experience, that's not easy I'm sure. 

I saw this as , C6 and C10 are not with the 6 pin plug on the diagram, so must be in the 10 pin plug.

I see what you are saying, no dispute there, and of course there is a Red / BLK wire in the 6 pin plug.

Now..How much needle deflection should I see when the speed contol kicks out timer instructions ? 

This is all AC voltage ?     VOM on 100volt range?

You know, there comes a time in life when things start being harder than they used to be for one reason or another,  I have reached my 60s doing everything for myself, now finding it harder and harder to do some things like this.   For one thing, progressive lens bi-focals can sure add to the list of teeth clenching items when trying to stand on your head to see wires or read meter needles.

Even my old analog VOM didn't want to work when I dug it out of the cabinet, been using the digital display for so long now I couldn't even remember where it was for a while.

Thanks, I just might get this washer working again one of these days, before my return period on new parts runs out at RepairClinic.com

 

 

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 Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 07:00 pm
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RegUS_PatOff
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120v AC ... I'm not sure how long a pulse it would be... maybe 1 or 2 seconds.. at least ..

 Will B. Fixed wrote: ...
Even my old analog VOM ...
Simpson 260 ?     (Bakelite)

Last edited on Fri Oct 17th, 2008 07:07 pm by RegUS_PatOff



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 Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 07:14 pm
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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Great pic, Reg! I love those old Simpsons. Learned basic electronics way back in my Navy days using one of those. Good times, good times.



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 Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 07:41 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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Thanks, hope you are not as old as your meter, but if so... it's a growing club.

Out of time for more work on it today,  I'll get those readings Sat.  

I might have a chance to return the timer if the speed control proves defective, but if it doesn't.....

What am I looking at then?   Possible motor replacement ?   

 

Could surge have popped the speed control, timer AND motor?   I would think when the speed control fuse went open it would save the rest, but this is not my field as you have guessed.

And by the way, it has a new surge protector in the outlet already, first time this has happened and lesson learned.   Only thing besides the furnace that didn't already have one.   Hmmm, better see about one for the furnace too since it's got electronics as well.

 

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 Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 11:09 pm
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AccApp
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First rule: It's not the timer.

Second rule: It's probably not the timer.

Third rule: It could be the timer. But rule out all other possibilities first.

I have yet to replace a timer in a Frigidaire built f/l washer, the one I almost did had one of the timer harness plugs knocked loose by an out of balance load. I can't count how many SCU's I have replaced.



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 Posted: Sat Oct 18th, 2008 12:31 am
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jambatt
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Should have 24vac between cycles. Will jump to 120vac for a few seconds before returning to 24vac. This is the signal from the speed control board to the timer to advance to the next cycle. If 120vac signal is present, move the ten pin connector to see if you lose the 24vac momentarily. If so, check connections on the ten pin connector for loose or bent pins. If harness is attached to drain hose, isolate it(Long story but proved to be the source of the problem on one particular machine).

Last edited on Sat Oct 18th, 2008 12:32 am by jambatt



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 Posted: Sat Oct 18th, 2008 02:02 am
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Will B. Fixed
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AccApp,


Most never the timer...Now THAT would have made a good reply a couple of days ago  :?  LOL, but thanks for the reply, kind of you to jump in, I'll take all the knowledge you care to share on  the subject.


JamBatt,

Thank you again, that will help with testing..  should be pretty good needle swing between 24 and 120V, was afraid it would only be a needle width by the way you were talking at first.

Will sure be checking for those loose connections again, but since it was power surge that started this, kinda slim chance I'd guess.   Not sure if the wire bundle is tied to the drain hose or not, but it sure won't be when I'm done.. good tip.


 

Seems nobody is worried about the motor, which is good...



Last edited on Mon Oct 20th, 2008 03:48 pm by Will B. Fixed

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 Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 04:16 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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jambatt wrote: Flow chart can be misleading(long story). Speed control board sends signal to timer to advance. This signal voltage is short lived and cannot be read with a digital meter. Connect analog meter to C6.6 and C10.5. Start the washer in Normal cycle and keep a close eye on the meter for the signal to advance.  You will get stare crazy but the needle movement that occurs when the signal voltage is sent from the speed control board to the timer only lasts a second or two and if you're not watching closely you will miss the movement. You can use the cycle chart that is with the wiring diagram that USReg posted to get an idea when the speed control board is going to send a voltage signal to the timer to advance. If no signal is detected, then return the board and get a replacement. If signal is detected and timer doesn't advance, then replace the timer.2.)  Should have 24vac between cycles. Will jump to 120vac for a few seconds before returning to 24vac. This is the signal from the speed control board to the timer to advance to the next cycle. If 120vac signal is present, move the ten pin connector to see if you lose the 24vac momentarily. If so, check connections on the ten pin connector for loose or bent pins. If harness is attached to drain hose, isolate it(Long story but proved to be the source of the problem on one particular machine).

I do not believe I saw any commands from the speed control to the timer, here is what went down.


1.) Hooked the analog meter to C6.6 (top pin6 of 6pin plug) and C10.5 (top left pin5 of 10pin plug)

2.) Meter set to 100V scale to make needle swing enough to see it easy.

3.) Did see some movement from low voltage to upper scale 100+ volts when I turned machine on in normal wash cycle.   but it lasted for a good 10 seconds before returning to lower voltage.  No 1-2 second needle movements to 120V to report.

4.) Washer filled.

5.) Tumbled 3 seconds every 10 seconds

Just stayed in that mode for 15 mins without another needle movement.  Except a few increased volts as it tumbled.

6.) I manually advanced the timer knob to the next cycle and saw another 10 second meter jump up to 100+volts then back to 24v

Then I advanced timer knob manually to drain the water and shut it off.

Found no loose wires at plug,  harness WAS tied to drain hose about 10 inches toward front of washer, so cut it free as in advice from JamBatt. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 Posted: Tue Oct 21st, 2008 10:48 am
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Will B. Fixed
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Run same test again with changes? 

Some other test needed?

Return timer for refund and speed control for replacement?




 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 05:01 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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Hmmm, I have either over stayed my welcome on the forum or I've offended everyone some way not sure why no replies to my recent questions this week.

In case I'm still connected with those that know how to help me;

While waiting for reply, I went back to voltage test between pin 5 of the 10 pin plug and pin 5 of the 6 pin plug...

Set to heavy wash and let it run 3 mins as in print

At the end of 3 mins it still read 120 volts which indicates bad speed control by the book.

Timer dial stopped turning and it held that voltage on and on

I found a place on the back of the timer motor where I can see the armature

I moved the knob ahead a couple of small clicks and saw the timer motor start up and the voltage drop to zero.

ran that way until it hit the next point and timer motor stopped as voltage on the speed control points jumped back to 120v

Did the same each time I clicked it ahead by hand.

I'm ready to send the new timer back and also get a replacement for the new defective speed control.

If I'm still in the loop here, any more help for me?

If I HAVE done or said something wrong I certainly didn't mean to so please just tell me what it was so I can correct it and not do it again.

Bad enough my wife is about to kill me for taking this long to repair the washer

8-)

 

 

 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 05:15 pm
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RegUS_PatOff
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RegUS_PatOff wrote: The Timer Motor sometimes gets it's Neutral line from the Speed Control Board, other times, it connects itself to the Neutral line....It seems the Timer is moving on it's own when it's supposed to.

Sounds like a bad Speed Control Board.



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 Posted: Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 06:15 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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Thank you... looks like two of us agree at this point 8-)

Now I'll have to wait until shipments run to and from RepairClinic.com with new speed control box to confirm.

 

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 Posted: Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 09:31 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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Looking at the timer unit and chart while it's out of the machine and trying to do continuity tests on all the contact points.

I must be missing something you could fill in for me...

I see there is a make/break contact 0C to 0T on the diagram

I find 0C & 0T on the timer

when I rotate the cam, 0C & 0T never make contact even when the rubbing block is at full lift.

How can this be?

I can't see how the upper contact could move down to take up the gap if it does.

Yes, I know I'm a pain in the behind, but I need to understand things.

 

 

Attachment: contacts0T0C.jpg (Downloaded 27 times)

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 Posted: Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 09:54 pm
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RegUS_PatOff
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I believe 0C to 0T is the Pull Switch :oops:

Last edited on Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 10:01 pm by RegUS_PatOff



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 Posted: Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 10:43 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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Yes indeed, the pull switch drops the upper contact enough to let the cam connect the points...  thanks I should have figured that one out.

Everything seems to check out with this timer so think it's good to keep..



 

Last edited on Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 10:47 pm by Will B. Fixed

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 Posted: Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 12:51 pm
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Will B. Fixed
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Well, getting nowhere after a month and $300 spent.   Replacement speed control arrived and still did not fix the problems. :shock: 

Started all the tests from the start with new parts and they still tell me that it's either the speed control board or the timer,  which it has both new at this point.

It once again wants me to test the contacts in the timer, but since it's a new unit I don't want to mess with it and have to figure it's working just fine with zero miles on it.

I KNOW the speed board was bad from the start because it had an open fuse so that had to be replaced for sure.

Someone must be able to get me on the right track here...

My wife will not tollerate much more time spent doing a repair job and is talking about buying new washer. She votes to get a refund on both parts and buy new machine NOW.   What a waste if this could be fixed for no more than what I have spent so far.

I'll be more than happy to do whatever testing needs to be done to get this over with.

I've now also re-done a continuity check on all the wires from both the speed control plugs to the motor and timer and all are good connections.  

Can't  there be another item in the system that is causing this?

Please, can't someone figure this out? 

Dead Man Walking....

 

 

 

 

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