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Whirlpool Dryer Heats without Start

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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 12:41 pm

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21^st Post

RegUS_PatOff
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gte215r wrote: ... I disconnected the heater leads, there is infinite resistence between them and between each of them and the case...
RegUS_PatOff wrote: Then it's either a bad Centrifugal Switch (on the Motor) or a shorted wire somewhere...

oohh.. but you mentioned with the "new" Motor it didn't have the Heater problem...

must be that Switch on the Motor... :ooo:

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Posted: Mon Sep 15th, 2008 01:06 pm

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gte215r
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The new motor has gone back to showing infinitie resistance accross it, vs the no resistance of 5 hours ago. So I tried it and it worked twice, then the old symptoms returned and the motor again shows no resistance accross the the power in to power out terminals. Its like the switch is sticking which makes no sense if I understand the switch correctly. The motor's lack of resistance is defintely how the power is getting to the heating element, I just don't understand how the switch can be sticking?

I may try to get a different motor, though with any luck this one will fix itself on the drive there.

I've vacuumed and blown compressed air through the whole dryer so there really shouldn't be any stray bits in there.

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 02:51 am

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23^rd Post

gte215r
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I got another new motor and after it worked for about 10 starts and stops it is doing the exact same thing again. I'm throwing my hands up and I can't figure out what is leaving that circuit open.

The wiring harness plugs right in, but there are some subtle differences in the new and old motor. I don't think that's an issue.

Here's another symptom, when it is not working and the mode dial is in the off position you hear ticking coming from the mode dial. The same ticking that you'd normally hear if a dryer cycle was running correctly. One od the off positions doesn't give you the ticking.

When you put it in a running mode and close the door there is an awful buzz coming from the motor, could it be that the running winding is getting power but the starting widing isn't or something like that. I don't have a diagram that explains the motor to me.

I'm really wondering if it is one of the controls. I've pretty much run through every other piece of this dryer. What can I do to test the mode dial and/or the start button? I'm very suspicious of the mode dial because of the ticking and fiddling with the modes to start and stop it is a stop on the path to not working.

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 03:11 am

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gte215r
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I read that you test a timer by putting it on a normal dry setting, taking off one of the power leads (I removed black) and then testing the resistance between the black disconnected lead and the red connected lead. I am seeing infinite resistance. I think it is supposed to show no resistance??? Am I any closer to an answer or do I need more testing?

If I touch the black lead to the black power connector on the timer and the red lead to the red power connector on the timer I get either 7 kOhms or 0 Ohms as I spin the dial. Not sure if this reading matters. The fluff dry gives the same reading as the off positions...

Please let me know if this means anything. Its that dang ticking that is making me wonder.

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 03:28 am

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gte215r wrote:
I read that you test a timer by putting it on a normal dry setting, taking off one of the power leads (I removed black) and then testing the resistance between the black disconnected lead and the red connected lead. I am seeing infinite resistance.

Hello, my persistent friend. You are very close to the truth. And as the Prophet says, "Close? What good is that? Oy!" [Q 2:24]

First, ensure that the dryer is unplugged. Then repeat the test but with one probe on the terminal from which the black wire was removed (and the other on the terminal with the red wire attached to it).

And may Allah make your guide your probe to the true to the test point.

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 05:25 am

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gte215r
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That gives me a no resistance reading in the timing and 7 kOhm in the off.

Last edited on Tue Sep 16th, 2008 05:31 am by gte215r

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 07:59 am

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NCSU_laundry_tech

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i will repeat what has been said before. either

A: the motor centrifugal switch is bad
B: you got a short to ground

there is no C. stop looking for it.

when trouble shooting problems like this i like to use volts and not ohms.

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 01:04 pm

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gte215r
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Trust me, I am tired of looking for C, but this is motor #3 so I don't think it is the switch and I can't find a short to ground anywhere, its not for lack of trying.

Does the short offer an explanation for the timer ticking in an off position?

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 02:14 pm

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NCSU_laundry_tech

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the timer is supposed to allow current to flow when its set to on. the motor is what stops the current when the drum is static.

unplug the red wire at the element, not the one coming off the high limit, and see if she heats with the motor off and timer on. if so then the element is shorted.

you may have to use the schematic and unplug components until you can figure out where the short is

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 02:46 pm

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RegUS_PatOff
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from original post:
gte215r wrote:
... I bought a replacement motor Jason 279827.... there is no heat and the motor isn't spinning...

gte215r wrote: ... I disconnected the heater leads, there is infinite resistence between them and between each of them and the case...

doesn't sound like there's a short anywhere...

.. too many other possibilities, but we went through most of them

not sure of the results...

could be the Timer...

Last edited on Tue Sep 16th, 2008 02:52 pm by RegUS_PatOff

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 02:57 pm

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gte215r
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Thanks for at least discussing it. Any sure fire strategy for diagnosing it, short of buying a new timer?

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 03:09 pm

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RegUS_PatOff
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If you could carefuly take some voltage measurements of the Heater circuit while the Dryer is running...

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Posted: Tue Sep 16th, 2008 08:18 pm

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NCSU_laundry_tech

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look at this schematic. current is flowing though the element but IS NOT flowing though the centrifugal switch(you ruled this out by changing the motor 3 times). they are in SERIES with each other. only explanation is a short.

Attachment: whirlpooldryer.jpg (Downloaded 12 times)

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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 01:07 am

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RegUS_PatOff
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but with the new Motor installed, there was "no heat" (eliminates shorts)

he may have more than one problem

Last edited on Wed Sep 17th, 2008 01:08 am by RegUS_PatOff

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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 03:30 am

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gte215r
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Again, I'm a real novice and if I'm poking around with it plugged in I'd rather know whch leades you want me to touch and what sort of voltage we're looking for. I've attached a photo of the timer. Thanks,

Attachment: Picture 003.jpg (Downloaded 12 times)

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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 03:43 am

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36^th Post

gte215r
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I unplugged it as shown, no motor heating, just the buzzing from the motor. Just for kicks I tried it the other way, same result.

NCSU_laundry_tech wrote: the timer is supposed to allow current to flow when its set to on. the motor is what stops the current when the drum is static.

unplug the red wire at the element, not the one coming off the high limit, and see if she heats with the motor off and timer on. if so then the element is shorted.

you may have to use the schematic and unplug components until you can figure out where the short is

Attachment: Picture 006.jpg (Downloaded 12 times)

Last edited on Wed Sep 17th, 2008 03:52 am by gte215r

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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 04:20 am

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RegUS_PatOff
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With the Timer set to Dry mode.

Door open (so that Motor won't run)

1) Carefully measure the voltage from the big Black wire to a bare spot on the cabinet.
should be 120v AC

2) then measure the voltage from the big Red wire to a bare spot on the cabinet.
should be 120v AC

3) then measure the voltage from the Blue wire to a bare spot on the cabinet.
should be 120v AC

Last edited on Wed Sep 17th, 2008 04:22 am by RegUS_PatOff

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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 04:21 am

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38^th Post

gte215r
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Eureka (well almost)

The issue is the centrifugal switch not closing. If it starts acting incorrectly and I reach into the motor and use a screwdriver to touch the area with the springs it pops open. Then the dryer goes back to operating normally.

So, what is it that holds the switch open? It has release catches on it so it isn't just the spin of the dryer. Does anyone have a schematic that explains the Jason 279827 motor?

Whatever tells the switch to close is the issue. Answer that question and we can wrap this up. Thanks for all your efforts.

If you want a picture I can try but the switch is in the motor.

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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 04:26 am

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RegUS_PatOff
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It's a Centrifugal Switch, when it gets up to speed, it will close both sections of the Switch
which will complete the Ciruit for the Heater, and also transfer from the Start Windings in the Motor to the Run Windings.

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Posted: Wed Sep 17th, 2008 04:28 am

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gte215r
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I was getting 125v AC, so I'd say that's ok.

RegUS_PatOff wrote: With the Timer set to Dry mode.

Door open (so that Motor won't run)

1) Carefully measure the voltage from the big Black wire to a bare spot on the cabinet.
should be 120v AC

2) then measure the voltage from the big Red wire to a bare spot on the cabinet.
should be 120v AC

3) then measure the voltage from the Blue wire to a bare spot on the cabinet.
should be 120v AC

Quote

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