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- > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Laundry Appliance Repair Forum > Kenmore washer 417.41142000 often fails to spin-cycle

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Kenmore washer 417.41142000 often fails to spin-cycle  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 03:46 pm
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df
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Hi!

So, I have this weird problem with this kenmore washer.

A couple of months ago it got quite bad with the thumping during spin - it was the well-known rear tub bearing problem, so I ordered a new rear tub with bearing, took it apart and put it back together, and it started working just fine. However, after some more time, it started getting more and more finicky about going into the spin cycle. Sometimes it would spin up without any problems, other times, it might take a few tries of setting it to the spin cycle to do it, yet other times, nothing at all helps to convince it to spin-dry the load, and I have to exercise my fancy "samurai hand-wringing technique". When it fails to spin, what it does is just keeps on tumbling it back and forth, as in trying to get it to balance, but never gets to spin up.

It seems like the balance-detector has become too sensitive, since it tends to have more problems spinnign bulky loads.

The floor is level, and solid tile; the machine is level; when i took it apart to replace the rear tub i checked the spider assembly, it was in near-perfect condition. The motor seems ok, the pulley is ok, the belt is tight on it and has no wear...

I did pull the service manual, from a link in this forum thread:
http://applianceguru.com/view_topic.php?id=12444&forum_id=2&msg=5
This is the specific manual:
http://www.frigidaire.com/tip/servicecd/Content/Laundry/5995369211.pdf

From the pictures of stuff, it looks exactly like my washer, so I am pretty certain it's the correct manual - but please let me know if not.

I followed the procedure  (on page 51 of the service manual) to check for the problem "tumbles but doesn't spin". I measured the voltages between pin 5 or the 6-pin plug and pins 1,2,6,9,10 of the 10-pin plug, but they all came out to be 118 volts, so it appears that the speed control board is ok (and so is the timer).

[By the way, i measured between the pins of the plugs, not pins of the sockets in the control board, I hope that's correct - because measurements between the pins of the sockets were all zero]

However, i also tried the procedure on page 52 (drive motor tumbles very slowly in any timer position), and found that the resistance between pins 3 and 4 of the 10 pin plug was 185 ohms, which seems to indicate that the speed control board is defective. Note however, that I do /not/ have the symptom of slow tumbling.

Further, i checked the motor, using the first step on page 50 (drive motor doesn't turn problem), and found that the resistance between pins 1-2, 1-3, and 2-3 was 2.7 or 2.8 ohms, not the 2.6 ohms specified. Is 2.7-2.8 close enough to eliminate the motor, or not?

So, after all that, does anyone have any good ideas of what the best thing to try first would be? Since it is having problems with the balancing (it seems), it could be either the speed control board, or the tachogenerator in the motor, i'm thinking... but I don't really know which is more plausible (if either).

Any help would be highly appreciated!

Thanks,
Daniel

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 Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 08:46 pm
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jambatt
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Check the door lock switch. Try pushing in on door when in spin cycle and see if it will start. Is door lock light on? Also check the pump for change and other items.

Last edited on Wed Aug 20th, 2008 08:48 pm by jambatt



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 Posted: Wed Aug 20th, 2008 10:59 pm
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df
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The door is locked during cycle, and the door lock light is on. I will try pushing on the door during spin cycle and see if that helps, though.

The drain pump does drain the water out properly (I hear it draining out, and see it if I look), so I am pretty sure nothing is wrong with the drain pump?

In the meantime, if you have any other thoughts/ideas, I'd appreciate them. :)

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 Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 12:19 pm
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Check the wire harness at the motor ,there is a metal stand-off holding a molenex connector. During an out-of-balance spin the wire harness from the speed control board is zip-tied to the floor and the wires get pulled at the connection...the one I had, the yellow wire crimped terminal was almost broke off, I had checked the motor, it end disconnects but after changing the speed control board and no change , it was wire tracing time. and do check the door switch by pushing it closed, as per jambatt indicated,  you should not hear a micro switch close if the door closes properly( you will if you push on the door)  check the door boot /baffle is folded around the front panel lip and glued  (crazi-glu  not silicone)  keep us posted...

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 Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 12:34 pm
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Great stuff, Scholar CTG51! :dude:

df, after digesting and applying CTG's sage pearls borne of experience, post some pics of the problem when you find it.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 02:20 pm
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df
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Hi,
thanks for the tips

I checked the wire coming from the motor to the control board. There is indeed a ziptie on the floor holding the wire, but there is a /lot/ of slack between that and where it is tied to the motor housing - the tub would have to go through the walls before it puts strain on that wire. That said, I still checked the wire along its whole length, but visual inspection did not reveal any crimps/breaks - all components of that wire bundle seem to be in like-new condition (just a bit dusty :) ).

About the door switch: could you clarify when i should hear stuff? I close the door, i hear a click. If i push on it further, i don't hear anything else (only some creaking in the chassis from me pushing the whole thing) - what exactly should i be listening for?

Also about the door switch: if the switch was bad (or door not closing completely, etc), wouldn't the washing machine refuse to wash anything at all? It wouldn't /just/ affect the spin cycle?

Well, at any rate, I am running a load now, will try pushing on the door if it refuses to go into spin, and seeing if that helps... Ok, no, this time it decided to go into spin by itself... so I was unable to test the "push on door" theory. I'll have to find something heavy/bulky to wash. And I think i'm all out of those for the time being...

And of course, Samurai-dono, I will be sure to post back here with any eventual fixes/resolution, and pictures (if there's anything to take a picture of).

Thank you all, and let me know what you think,
Daniel

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 Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 03:44 pm
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df
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OK, so i tried running this same load again, and this time it failed to spin... No amount of pushing on the door made any difference whatsoever, and it just tumbled back and forth through the entire spin cycle with nary a spin. It "tries" to go into spin, and the clothes /just/ get centrifugally distributed around the sides, but then it just stops and everything falls back down...

And by the way, the boot is glued well around the rim, no problems there...

Any other suggestions? Any comments about any of the voltage/resistance readings I made and posted in the initial post?

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 Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 04:28 pm
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jambatt
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Check the ten pin connector on the speed controlboard. Does machine fill, tumble and drain OK? Observe harness(taped to drain hose) to speed control board for movement at the end of drain cycle. Have had the connection momentarily broken at the same time that the board signals the timer to move to next cycle. Connection will appear normal but signals fails to make it to timer.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 05:10 pm
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df
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Hi,
Yes, it fills, tumbles, drains just fine, it goes well through the whole cycle without any problems - the only thing is that in the time where it should be spinning, it just tumbles it back and forth, but doesn't gain speed. After it tumbles through the spin cycle, it goes on to the fluff cycle just fine, and then stops also just fine. So it does everything, but doesn't spin up when it should.

I have observed the 10pin plug at the beginning/end of the drain cycle specifically to check for what you say - the connection appears very solid, and there is some slack between the plug and the place where it is tied to the drain hose, so there was absolutely no strain placed on it; and furthermore, there was almost no drain hose vibration at all anyway...

Any further suggestions?

Thanks,
Daniel

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 Posted: Thu Aug 21st, 2008 07:05 pm
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jambatt
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I'd replace the speed control board through RC. Returnable if it don't fix it.  



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 Posted: Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 02:46 am
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DITTO.. on then speed control board......

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 Posted: Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 03:18 am
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df
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ok, i'll give that a shot, then.
will report results when i try it.
thanks :)

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 Posted: Fri Aug 22nd, 2008 05:32 pm
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df
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Well, I just ordered the speed control board (aka spin control board) assembly from repairclinic, here's the direct link to the part:

http://www.repairclinic.com/SmartSearch/SSPartDetail.aspx?PartID=1206430&PPStack=1

Once I get it and try it out, I will report the results here.

Thank you all for your help. :)

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 Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 04:42 pm
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df
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Well, I have good news to report! ;)

I ordered that spin control board, replaced it, and now the washer works as it should, spins and dries stuff nicely, no problems.

Some notes about the new part:

First, it seems to be more completely enclosed in a metallic shell (the original was half-plastic), so it may be that EM interference was the cause of the original spin control board's intermittent failure... (Maybe I should have tried faraday-caging the old spin control board, with aluminum foil, or thin sheet metal?)

Second, the spinning algorithm for the new board is different - in the process of balancing the load, it may do several "mini-spins". This is nice, because even if it fails to balance the load (still happens on a rare occasion), it still comes out pretty dry, rather than sopping wet. (Which is why at this point I am not going to bother swapping in the old one and trying to faraday-cage it - but it may be a worthy idea for someone who hasn't yet bought a new board.)

I hope that this thread will come in handy for others looking to fix their washers.

Thanks a lot to everyone who helped me out!

====

A somewhat offtopic question: I understand that corrosion in the spider assembly tends to be a problem for this washer. It seems to be galvanic in nature, seeing as how we have a steel drum attached to the aluminum spider assembly (two metals with different electrode potential), and an eletrolytic solution of detergent and dirt sloshing around making contact with both the drum and the spider assembly.

I saw a forum somewhere where some guy suggested to mount some zinc sacrificial anodes to the drum (for background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacrificial_anode )  Has anyone tried that, or at least has an experienced/educated opinion on this idea? Do you think it's worth it to give it a shot, to reduce the probability of me having to rip this thing apart again in a few years, to replace the corroded spider assembly?

Thanks,
Daniel

Last edited on Mon Sep 8th, 2008 04:46 pm by df

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 Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 07:16 pm
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don't worry the rear bearing almost always goes out before the spider.;)



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 Posted: Mon Sep 8th, 2008 07:32 pm
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df
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NCSU_laundry_tech wrote: don't worry the rear bearing almost always goes out before the spider.;)

heh, yea, that would be pretty good news - if i hadn't already just replaced the rear bearing a few months ago! (see first post in this thread.)

i bet the new bearing will outlast the spider (washer is from 2001 or so, so the spider is about 7 years old; new rear bearing+rear tub shell is only a few months old.)

so, should i worry _now_? :)

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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 03:36 pm
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Hello!

I'm resurrecting this old post because I need some help with the spin control board in my front loading Kenmore washer, model #http://www.repairclinic.com/SSPartDetail.aspx?s=t-417.44252500-%3d%3dc212i1206430&PartID=1206430

I've completely disassembled the front control panel, removed the rear panel, and the front lower panel.  I've located and removed the motor control board, and cleaned out the drain pump.  The spin control board isn't shown on this link: http://www.repairclinic.com/Washing-Machine-Front-Load-Frigidaire-GE-Kenmore-Style-Appliance-Diagram

Any assistance is greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:25 pm
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df
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Hi,
Motor control board is the same thing as the spin control board (the motor spins, ne? :) ). It's the thing that's mounted on the bottom right rear of the washer (if you are facing the front). That's the thing that I replaced to fix my problem.
Hope that helps! :)

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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:33 pm
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bjv001
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Sounds good to me!

My confusion arose when I saw two different pictures/items/part names for my model:

Part 1191307Part 1206430
The part that I have in mine is the 1191307.

I'll give it a shot.

Thanks a lot!

Barry



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 Posted: Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:51 pm
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df
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Ah, interesting - I don't know what the difference is between the two.

For what it's worth, my original (and also the replacement) part looked like the second part you posted (1206430). I guess going with the one that looks like the original one you took out is your best bet... :)

Last edited on Wed Jun 24th, 2009 04:52 pm by df

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