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- > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Laundry Appliance Repair Forum > Whirlpool quite wash top Loader With Coupler Circa 2000

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Whirlpool quite wash top Loader With Coupler Circa 2000  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 02:03 am
   
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thezone
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:yikes:  I just finished replacing my coupler and with great effort finally put the motor back.  I would give this task a simplicity of two beers but a difficulty in putting motor back on without the coupler falling out while trying to hold the rubber mounts in while trying to snap the two clips back on.  This required two people  and I had to place the washer at a 45 degree angle to accomplish it.  Anyway, after making sure that everything was lined up, I was able to snap the thing in place.  Then I started the washer with a light load.  I went into the house thinking all was well.  Went out to the garage and noticed a burning smell and saw smoke coming from the washer.  So, I turned the washer off.  What could possible be wrong?  Everything worked fine before I replaced the coupler.  Also, why didn't the thermal relay shut the motor off?  Could this thing start a fire?

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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 02:16 am
   
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Two options as I see it:

1. The transmission is starting to bind and that is why the old coupler broke.

2. The plastic bits of the coupler are not installed far enough on the shaft. The ends of theshafts should be even with the flat spot inside the coupler half.



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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 03:04 am
   
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thezone
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1.  The old coupler never really broke.   I think it was just wearing out.  Everything worked fine, but I had to lift the lid to get any spin cycle to work.

2.  When I took the motor off, all the pieces (only 3) just fell off.  I don't remember if the parts were pressed completely on.  Even so, why would that cause smoke?  Why would the transmission overheat?  I will take it apart tonight and check if the pieces are pressed on. 

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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 05:36 am
   
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thezone
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:poison: Ok, just took the whole thing apart again.  Spun the tranny, good.  Spun the motor not frozen.  Pounded the dam plastics flush with the spindle.  Couldn't get the pump off of the motor, bummer.  Anyway, put everything back together.  Hmmm, after making the spindle flush with the plastic clutch parts thing went right on no problem.  Put power to the washer tried the spin cycle... nada, zilch.  But I did smell something!!  Anyway, your lack of how to put it back together in your instructions cost me a Washer Motor.  Unless you got any suggestions, gotta pony up the bucks for a new one.  For the most part you all have a pretty good site but you really screwed the pooch on this one.  I highly recommend that you put some assembly instructions together with a notation that says make sure the clutch gears are FLUSH BEFORE you put motor back on or you will burn up your motor and melt your pump to the motor  .  Boy am I bummed.  :X

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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 06:41 am
   
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thezone
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Ok, one more.  If the recommendation is that I should consider a new washer then here are the facts.  Current washer has been used twice a day for about 8 years.  Viusually the washer is mint.  However, if age and usage dictates that I should purchase a new one then I must ask what you would recommend under 600.  By the way, I used your site to fix my Refridgerator and saved a bundle so over all I am not feeling too bad.  Thanks.  Oh, model number on washer is LSL9345EQ1. 

 

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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 07:54 am
   
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First of all, If you had done a little more research on this site you would have found all the instructions and help you needed......

That being said, it sounds like you changed the coupler from underneith without removing the cabinet. If that is what you did, that was your big problem, the complete outer wrap/cabinet comes off very easily and everything is very accessible from the front, (this is one of the easiest machines to work on, if you know what you're doing).

About the pump not being able to come off the motor, that didn't happen from you not putting the couplers on the motor and transmission shafts all the way. Your pump has been leaking just a tiny amount of water for a long time, (seal probably about ready to go out completely at anytime), and has now rusted the shaft of the motor into the pump.

Sometime the only way to get the pump off is by breaking it apart with a hammer then hope the motor shaft isn't rusted away to much to turn the new pump after the shaft is cleaned up, (this leaking if it has gone to far could have destroyed the front motor bushing also).

Check the motor plug and make sure it is plugged in all the way and none of the wires look burnt. You can take the cabinet off and remove the motor and lay it next to the machine plugged in, then put your foot on the motor and try to start it, (so no possiblity that transmission is binding causing motor not to run). If motor just buzzes then there is a problem with the start capacitor, timer, motor, or wiring to the motor.

With the cabinet off and testing you need to bypass the lidswitch or it won't work at all in the spin cycle. The agitate cycle will work without the lidswitch bypassed but you will have to blow into the pressure tube to make it think it is full of water.



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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 08:13 am
   
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thezone
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Thank you for your reply, here is some thoughts...

 

I didn’t know of any other research than to look at the page that gave me instruction on how to replace the coupler,  http://fixitnow.com/2004/05/appliance-tip-of-day-replacing-drive.htmr

 

Everything was removed as per instructions from the above mentioned page. 

 

The pump was easily removed until I replaced the coupler and the motor overheated causing the pump to be welded (for now) to the motor.  No I don’t know what I am doing but I am a Mechanic and a Computer Store Owner and Tech (30 years experience).  No rust, as I said Washing Machine is visually mint.  No rust or visible sign of damage. 

 

Don’t want to break the pump but it only cost 50 bucks if I have too.  Not the issue just wondering whether it is worth repairing. 

 

No wires are burnt.  But visual inspection of the motor shows black windings.  How do you check the transmission?  It seems to spin freely.  Is there another way to test before I make a decision to repair washer or replace?

 
Washer was tested with cabinet on and plugged in.  No water was present.  All was drained.  Please help if you can.  Thanks. 

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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 09:22 am
   
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I'm guessing that when you put your coupling on the motor you just hammered it on from the side? Here's what I do. I turn the motor so the pump end of the shaft is on the floor, usually on a rag so it doesn't damage the floor. Then I warm up the coupler half by running hot water on it. Very important if its winter. Then I gently tap the coupler half on with a socket, say a deep 9/16 inch or something about the same size. Once the coupling is flush with the shaft, I put the other side on the gearcase. Don't pound on the shaft itself, that can knock out the bearings.

And this is probably what happened to your motor. When you put the coupler half on you knocked the bearings out and now you have motor end play. This is when you can move the motor shaft in then out more than an 1/8th of an inch from the motor body. This causes the motor shaft to not line up correctly with the centrifical switch, so the motor stays in "start" where it energizes both the "run" and "start" windings pulling about 20 amps. It will cook the motor in about a minute. Don't feel bad, I've had brand new $150 motors come already pre-ruined (by shipping) that did the same thing.

Or it could be that your motor start switch just finished failing (they weld their contacts together from all the years of arcing) and that cooked the motor, or it could be the motor is just worn out.

2 loads a day times 365 days times 8 years is.......nearly 6000 loads. Take 6000 times a $1.00 a load and your machine has done $6000 worth of laundry. It just might have paid for its self by now.

As for machines, I would stick with Whirlpool. Still one of the best top loaders and one of the easiest to work on.

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 Posted: Fri Mar 9th, 2007 07:30 pm
   
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thezone
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So are you saying that the motor is bad and replace it?  Or are you saying buy a new washer.  Speak in laymens terms, I am trying hard to read between the lines but I missed something.  :?

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 Posted: Sat Mar 10th, 2007 01:29 am
   
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Well the motor is $146.00. its up to you how much you want to put into this washer. I can't make that decision for you. So is there play in the bearings?

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 Posted: Sat Mar 10th, 2007 01:39 am
   
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That Guy wrote: 2 loads a day times 365 days times 8 years is.......nearly 6000 loads. Take 6000 times a $1.00 a load and your machine has done $6000 worth of laundry. It just might have paid for its self by now.

As for machines, I would stick with Whirlpool. Still one of the best top loaders and one of the easiest to work on.

translation - this machine doesn't owe you a thing and Whirlpool still makes a good toploader.

Pump - $43.95, Motor - $145.70

Even if the transmission was locked up this would not cause a motor failure. The motor is designed with an internal overload that would trip if the motor could not turn.



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 Posted: Sat Mar 10th, 2007 01:45 am
   
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thezone
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New Washer $849 plus tax.  Pump and Motor about $200, no brainer, I will try replacing pump and motor.  I am just not sure why the motor didn't trip the overload before frying itself.  Maybe it was just a coincedence.  Should I use the new coulpler or should I replace it.  Keep in mind that I will have to pry the old one off the motor.  I hope that doesn't ruin it.  Thank you you all for your help. 

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 Posted: Sat Mar 10th, 2007 01:56 am
   
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If the motor switch was damaged as That Guy describes then the start winding would overheat faster than the overload can react. I do not recall running into one of these motors that have burned up, usually they fail from worn bearings. You should be ok with the coupler on the new motor as long as it fits snug.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 06:19 am
   
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thezone
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:shock:  Well, found an appliance guy in town that had a motor for this washer.  Replaced it following alll the proper protocol.  Everything is as it was.  In other words, I still have the spin problem.  Everytime the washer enters a spin cycle, it just sits and hums.  If I pick up the lid and then set it down, spin cycle starts and the basket spins. Then after it does a few more thing like agitating and such it works fine.  Enter another spin cycle, it just hums.  Pick up the lid again and set it down, washer continues normally. Kind of a pain to babysit the washer through each load. New coupler, new motor, new pump.  Now what? 

 

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 Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 08:02 am
   
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Without being there to actually do some test it kind of hard to say, but from what you describe it sounds like a timer problem to me. Most likely a bad/burnt spin contact and when you slam the lid it makes the contacts connect and everything works again until next time.



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 Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 08:48 am
   
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Keinokuorma
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I recently read something about the transmission needing a pause between drain and spin, to be able to switch to spin... opening the lid would allow an extra pause which helped in some cases... also if ramming the lid helps... has the lid switch been assessed as a possible source of the problem altogether?



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 Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 10:38 am
   
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thezone
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I don't really slam the lid, I just put it down gently and then lift it back up.  Where would this contact be that you talk about?

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 Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 10:41 am
   
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thezone
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I am not sure why the lid switch would be a source of the problem.  It seems that breaking the contact while the washer is commanded to spin seems to be at the heart of the problem.  It seems that interuption of the command reinables the command which causes the command to activate again which causes the spin cycle to reinable.  Thoughts?

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 Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 12:04 pm
   
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The gearcase is called a neutral drain gearcase. Here's how it works. When the washer is agitating it is running one direction. When the motor switches direction to drain/spin it runs the opposite direction.  At first the gearcase does nothing, the motor just spins the water pump and the water is pumped out, but then the the timer pauses. This pause cuts power to the motor. When it resumes power to the motor the motor is still spinning the same direction, but now its in "spin" as the shift  mechanism is pulled across and engages the spin. (This is a basic description not 100% accurate) 

This pause is missing from your washer. So it stays in "drain". When you open the lid, you provide the pause that allows it to shift into spin. You most likely have a bad timer. If you pull the cover and check the third set of contacts from the left, (facing the cam end) you will probably find burnt black contacts on both the upper and lower leafs of the switch.

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 Posted: Sun Mar 11th, 2007 12:08 pm
   
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So, when it should drain and spin, it drains, pauses, then goes on humming but nothing happens?

Drain and spin would both be done in reverse motor direction... during drain, the transmission should be set to neutral, during the pause it should be swithched to spin mode... I read it's done by a control magnet, but don't know if it applies to this model. Anyway I've read about cases where lifting the lid and setting it back allowed an extra pause that made it switch to spin. If it drains, the motor should run fine in reverse.



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