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Please help me decide what to do if the transmission is shot:
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Maytag Atlantis Won't Spin  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10th, 2005 10:00 am
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KCMan
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My Maytag Atlantis washer MAV7257AWW (checked, re-checked, examined with a flashlight, verified, and certified that this is the correct model number on two different tags stuck to the back of the washer, not some irrelevant manual) was purchased 07/13/2002 from Sears.  Should have bought the extended warranty!

This unit used to make a noise like a rock was stuck between the gears or something when it was spinning.  But it spun.  It did not seem to be the belt squealing.  I never did find the source.  I think that may be a clue to its current state:  it no spinna.

The belt is in good condition.  The washer fills and it agitates.  I defeated the lid switch and watched as it flawlessly churned the water.  It pumps out the water just fine.  It appears that the belt drives the pump from a separate pulley so that confirms the motor is motoring and the belt is belting.  What it doesn't do is spin.  From looking at the parts diagrams, it seems that the TRANSMISSION is the only thing left.  There are lots of parts around the transmission, but no parts explosion of the tranny itself.  I have attached the .GIF parts diagram for others who may be curious.  Ok, now for the questions!

1) Can the transmission be repaired or does it have to be replaced if defective?

2a) How long is the manufacturer's warranty? I can't find all of the original paperwork at the moment, but a sticker on the back of the washer gives me the 07/13/2002 date for purchase.  (2b) Do I have a prayer for them to fix it?  After all -- the transmission is over $200 and would probably require all minors out of earshot and a case of beer to replace it.  On top of that, the Queen B. of the Universe just left a few months ago and now she wants everything I am going to earn for the next 20 years to be deposited in her Retail Therapy account.  I shouldn't have fought so hard to keep this wreched machine!  (2c) Should I fix it or replace it with something else before our next court date?

3) Can you help?  Anyone?  Is there a class-action suit that I can leech onto and get rich from simply because I made the wrong choice with this washer?  Oh Great Samurai - Do you really exist?  Is there any hope for me?  Please--Someone give me a reason to live!

Attachment: Maytag Washer 5.gif (Downloaded 214 times)

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 Posted: Fri Jun 10th, 2005 10:30 am
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Mad Mac
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These generally have a 5 year parts-only warranty on the tranny - consult your user guide. You would get stuck with a labour charge.



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 Posted: Sat Jun 11th, 2005 11:52 am
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Budget Appliance Repair
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Your problem may not be the transmission itself, you could have a worn out drive pulley/cam not raising the brake far enough to release or a leaking tub seal has rusted and locked the spin bearing up.

Remove front, tilt the machine back against a wall, remove the drive belt and turn the main tranmission pulley, (the one in the center of machine), one way will make it agitate the other should make the pulley raise up on the cam ramp and release the brake letting the transmission turn.  When you turn the pulley in the direction for spin, if the transmission doesn't want to turn try grabing hold of transmission and turn it by hand while turning pulley.

If the ramp on the pulley/cam has worn down you can do a tempory fix by installing a thicker or extra washer between part ref# 4 and 6 to compansate for the worn cam ramp.  Also check all parts in ref#24 to make sure all thrust washer and bearings are intact.

Do you notice any signs of water leakage at the top of the transmission, if so this would indicate the center tub seal has been leaking water and frozen up the main spin bearing.

 



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 Posted: Sun Jun 12th, 2005 01:03 am
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KCMan
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Progress!  But, alas, not enough.  Thanks for your posting.  It gave me the renewed interest in diagnosing and resolving my issue.

I pulled the belt off (on this model it is underneith the washer, requiring NO disassembly--a nice touch.)  The transmission pulley moves freely in the agitate direction but would only move reluctantly in the other.  OK.  Time for some of the dreaded disassembly. 

I pulled the agitator assembly out with its single bolt under the fabric softener cup.  I discovered all of the clips holding the tub cover assembly ring to the tubs and got it out of the way.  Next I removed the four bolts holding the spinner basket and pulled it out.  There I hesitated to pull the bolts securing the outer tub, so I took a break for a beer.  (Ok, all I had was a cigarette, but I wqanted a beer!)  When I came back to it, I was examining everything I could see and WHOA!  Eureka!  Something that didn't look right--there was a silver necklace wrapped around the seal/bearing that supports the agitator.  With finesse I removed it and checked for anything else (found nothing more).

I reassembled everything and reconnected water and power.  It still agitates but still does not spin.

Do you, based on this further description, still think the same worn cam ramp will be  the issue?  I can hear the motor spinning when it should be spinning the basket, but the basket does not spin.

Thanks for the assistance so far!

KCMan

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 Posted: Sun Jun 12th, 2005 10:34 am
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Budget Appliance Repair
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That chain rapped around the seal area very well could have damaged the seal and let water into the bearing. Did you look for signs of water leakage above the transmission where it enters the outer tub?

Did you pull the drive pulley off and inspect the thrust washers and bearings? Did you take the front off the washer and try to turn the transmission by hand while turning the pulley in the spin direction?

From your info just posted it doesn't sound like you did any of the above, just pulled the agitator and tub and found the chain.

It can only be one of three things:
Worst case 1) internal clutch spring inside transmission broken, (have to eliminate other possiblities first). Part only, complete transmission, most likely still under warranty.

2) Tub seal bad from chain and spin bearing frozen up

Best case-hope 3) need new pulley/cam and/or thrust bearing.

Last edited on Sun Jun 12th, 2005 10:36 am by Budget Appliance Repair



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 Posted: Mon Jun 13th, 2005 10:51 am
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KCMan
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I pulled the main drive pulley off and the thrust cam and washers appear to be in fine, original condition.  No wear seen.   That would have been too easy, huh?

I did try to measure the distance that the transmission shaft moved in the up/down (or axial) direction when the pulley was off.  It was about a quarter of an inch.  I'm guessing that the cam action when motor is in the spin direction causes the transmission to shift gears by  moving the shaft down, or towards the floor.  If that's true, then how far should it move?  Also, I can spin the pulley in the agitate direction with one finger.  In the spin direction, it moves but is much harder and the basket side of the transmission (output shaft) does not move at all.

I am having difficulty determining how to remove the tub seal to see if the spin bearing is frozen up.  The last thing I need to do is tear something up that wasn't already damaged.  In the attached photo, the yellow arrow shows the top of the seal above the seal nut (red arrow).  Do I pry it up/away from the nut below it?  Does the nylon "nut" thread onto the shaft? 

I appreciate the time you have spent already assisting me.  Thank you!
KCMan

Attachment: Maytag Tub Seal.jpg (Downloaded 483 times)

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 Posted: Mon Jun 13th, 2005 01:05 pm
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Budget Appliance Repair
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I've never worked on the center seal or bearing on this newer style Maytag/Norge machine, so don't really know how that all comes apart.

You haven't said if you've looked for signs of leakage at the top of the transmission, if you don't see any signs of leakage you don't need to tear any further into it before correctly verifying that the pulley/cam is releasing the brake.

You have kind of the idea how the pulley cam system works, but not quite correct. The shaft has nothing to do with it, the pulley actually rides up the cam pushing the thrust washers tight against the brake and then up far enough to release the brake. You really can't tell by just looking without a new one to compare with the old if the cam ramps are worn down or not. It only takes about 1/16" to 1/8" wear before they won't work correctly.

That is what I was trying to explain in my first post, a way to temporily fix this to see if the worn cam was your problem:

If the ramp on the pulley/cam has worn down you can do a tempory fix by installing a thicker or extra washer between part ref# 4 and 6 to compansate for the worn cam ramp. Also check all parts in ref#24 to make sure all thrust washer and bearings are intact.
Did you take the front off the washer and try to turn the transmission while you were turning the pulley in the spin direction?



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 Posted: Mon Jun 13th, 2005 01:19 pm
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KCMan
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No, I guess I thought that the transmission was fixed in place.  I'll try that when I get home from work tonight. 

I examined the cam pretty thoroughly and my determination that it wasn't warn was made by virtue of the fact that I could still see the molding marks.  It was well lubricated and not deformed in any dimension.  If I had a new one handy I'd slap the verniers across it and compare directly, but I don't. 

As I progress thru this, I'll try to capture enough photos to let you see how the seal comes apart if I have to go that far.  I removed the whole cabinet from the base bacause I didn't know that just two screws released the front.  It's an advantage in that I can get to everything now. 

I'll rethink the whole thing tonight as I work with it further.  There appear to be no leaks at the top bearing, so I probably won't pull the seal.  I'll concentrate on the brake and thrust assembly.

Again, let me express my sincere appreciation for your assistance!!!

KCMan

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 Posted: Mon Jun 13th, 2005 02:01 pm
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kdog
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the support that the basket was monted to also threads off,a special spanne wrench is required for this.  check first to see if the brake is being disengaged- lay the machine on it's back and shed some light upon the thrust bearing/pulley- you will see on the pulley there are indicator marks moulded into the pulley with a "min" and "max"- thepullet should turn freely one direction(as you already indicated it does),but when reversed,should disengage the brake(cause tub movement) somewhere in the indicated range,if you cannot adjust this slack,a thrust bearing kit must be installed.note carefully the positioning of the 7 washers involved in the thrust ass'y. best way to describe it ; the biggest washer goes on first,the second biggest goes to the bottom; of the remaining washers,you form a "sandwich" with the springy washer closest to the bottom. thankfully,full instructions w/diagram is included with encapsulated thrust bearing kit. be certain to check for signs of water leaks(however small looking) through the lower part of the tub where the shaft goes in as this is a sure sign of seal failure/bearing damage.



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 Posted: Tue Jun 14th, 2005 02:50 am
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KCMan
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Ok, the saga congtinues...I pulled off the pulley and thrust assembly again.  With all of the washers removed, I tried to turn the shaft.  Agitate direction (CW when viewed underneath) continues to agitate.  I am not able to turn the shaft the other way.  Well, not very far.  Sometimes it goes a quarter turn, sometimes less, sometimes niot at all.  Is this because the brake has not been released by the cam?

I believe that there is some wear to the cam, contrary to earlier posting.  I added a washer to the stack of washers just above the spring washer and below the cam.  Can't tell by hand if that is enough or if there is really any change. 

Photos: 

1     3    (1) Bottom of Maytag, pulley & washers removed     (3)Chain wrapped around top of tub

2     4    (2) Washers and Cam                       (4) Maytag on its side.  Trans. assy joins tub to base.

No signs of water leakage anywhere, therefore have not gone down any farther from the top.  I could not find any Min or Max on the pulley.  Do I need to reassemble and run it thru fill/spin cycle to determine if the washer fixed the problem with the brake releasing?  Should I be able to turn the shaft CCW (spin) with all of the washers and pulley off?

Thanks for all of the help I've been asking for and receiving.  I really want to conqueror this thing!

KCMan

 

Attachment: Maytag.jpg (Downloaded 175 times)

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 Posted: Tue Jun 14th, 2005 05:43 am
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kdog
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the picture you provided of the under view suggests one of the small screws that secures the stator of the brake is corroded,how??  are you sure there is no water leak anywhere??  in any event,it is normal for the pulley to turn some and then bind,when it is binding,it is disengaging the brake,you should be able to identify some mars moulded into the plastic pulley/cam one indicated the minimal travel before brake disengagement,and the other is maximun,if it doesnt grab within this range,you must add a washer,or washers to achieve this as was previously explained.



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 Posted: Tue Jun 14th, 2005 10:38 am
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Budget Appliance Repair
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Well, not being able to turn the transmission shaft in spin direction by hand with the pulley off tells me the internal clutch spring inside the transmission is ok and doing it's job. It takes a certain amount of torque to overcome the clutch spring pressure so as when the brake does release the tub can spin at a slower speed until all the water is drained and the clutch spring can grab and turn transmission at full speed.

I don't see any signs of water leakage except that same one screw that Kdog mentioned, but that could have been water splashed over and set in that area at one time. The picture that would really tell us if it were leaking or not would be a picture of the inside of the cabinet sides, if the seal were leaking usually you would see signs of water slung out on the cabinet inside right at the level of the top of transmission.

If the picture with the chain is before your removed it and it was easy to remove, (wasn't actually caught between sealing face surface and not ripped thru the rubber portion than that doesn't seem to be the problem.

I'm still betting on a worn out pulley/cam. Did you ever try to turn the transmission pulley in spin direction while at the same time trying to turn the actual transmission by hand? In picture #2 as you noted them, find another washer the same size as the one on the left, (the one just above the c-clip), and install it with the old one. This should be enough if the cam is worn to verify if this is your problem.



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 Posted: Tue Jun 14th, 2005 11:53 am
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KCMan
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"Did you ever try to turn the transmission pulley in spin direction while at the same time trying to turn the actual transmission by hand?"  You mean to try to turn the whole aluminum housing?  The one in the attached picture?  Yes, I did try once but it felt so solid that I assumed that it was bolted in place.  I have now (just now!) inserted the additional washer between the e-clip which holds the pulley-cam assembly onto the shaft and the existing washer which contacts the cam.  I moved the pulley CCW (spin direction) and was not able to budge the transmission at all.  It feels quite solid.  Should the whole aluminum housing turn on the axis of the shaft?  If so, is there some point I could lube to make it easier? 

Please reference the attached pictures.  The chain in the first picture is just as I found it.  I used small needle nose pliers to pull it out.  It was not really wedged in place and came out intact and fairly easily.  It was not deformed, so I hope there was no damage.  It is shown now with a penny for size reference.  The inside of tthe cabinet is not splashed at all.  Please verify that you and I are refering to the same part as the transmission.  Do I have it labeled correctly (I can't imagine anytghing else in the picture being called a transmission!)

Whether or not we achieve a 100% fix, I have learned several things through this ordeal. 
  1. I am much less scared of the interior workings of the mysterious washing machines.
  2. I know that they can be opened much more easily than they appear.  The last two screws I removed were the first two I should have removed.  They held the front onto the rest of the cabinet and I probably wouldn't have needed to completely remove the whole cabinet.
  3. There are still people out there in the world who will come to a stranger's aid and stay with the job in spite of the stranger's ignorance.  Thanks again.  Very sincerely!
KCMan

Attachment: Maytag2.jpg (Downloaded 470 times)

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 Posted: Tue Jun 14th, 2005 12:19 pm
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Budget Appliance Repair
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No signs of leakage on inside of cabinet, and yes the part you have the yellow arrow pointed to is the transmission. When the machine spins correctly if you have the front off the whole complete unit will be spining around real fast, you don't want to get your hands/small children/ or animals in there.

Something you said in an early post could be your problem. I can't remember how much play, in and out, the transmission shaft should have. If the transmission shaft has came loose from however it is attached to the other components in the transmission then instead of releasing the brake when the pulley rides up the cam you would just be pulling the shaft down and not releasing the brake.

When you turn the pulley in the spin direct watch very closely and see if the pulley actually rides up the cam or if the cam and shaft end just pull out of the machine.

If you don't get the brake to release the transmission will be locked solid and not move.

Last edited on Tue Jun 14th, 2005 12:20 pm by Budget Appliance Repair



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 Posted: Wed Jun 15th, 2005 03:09 am
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KCMan
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The FINAL Chapter!

:party:

Note the assembly of the washer!  Note the clothes plastered to the side of the spinner basket!

You guys made it possible.  You stuck with me and kept poking me in the right direction.  I went out to the old Snap On box and retrieved a pair of spreader-type snap ring pliers.  I used them to force the cam in the spin/brake release direction.  As I started to try to move the transmission, there was a serious "snap" and suddenly everything worked.  I still do not know what broke loose, but, with things moving as you had described when I put reasonable torque in the spin direction, the transmission turned reliably.  I reassembled everything and ran a load through.  NO PROBLEMS!!!

Thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU!!  You guys are the best!  Have one on me!  :gulp:

KCMan

Attachment: Dscf0282s.jpg (Downloaded 448 times)

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 Posted: Wed Jun 15th, 2005 11:54 am
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Budget Appliance Repair
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Congratulations, It sounds like for some reason the brake was locked up, never seen one do it but that doesn't mean it's not possible.



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 Posted: Thu Jun 16th, 2005 10:31 am
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KCMan
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Done Deal!  You got beer!  It wasn't much of a donation because the Queen B. of the Universe is trying to take me to the cleaners.  I wish I could have afforded to give what your service was really worth to me -  you'd have beer for months!  Guys:  THANKS!  No way in Hell could I have done this without you!

 

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 Posted: Thu Jun 16th, 2005 12:34 pm
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Mucho domos for the brewskis!  (Actually, the fund goes to pay for the forum and website, but it's more fun to say it's for beer). 

Great job on your repair!

:cheers:



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 Posted: Fri Jan 2nd, 2009 02:52 pm
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Retaining clip #8 was broken. Replaced it and my machine works fine.

I replaced kit #24 about 3 years ago based on advice found here to fix the first time. 

Much thanks for the advice - saved me a ton of money.

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