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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > Frigidaire model MDB122RFS0 Dishwasher will not empty wash water |
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| Frigidaire model MDB122RFS0 Dishwasher will not empty wash water | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2006 08:29 pm |
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1st Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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My dishwasher will not empty the water when it goes to the drain portion of the cycle. On my first look into this issue, I found a plastic roller that fastens to the interior of the cabinet to support the upper rack slide in the sump, BELOW the large sump screen. The roller was just lying in the sump cavity. BUT all of the rollers are in place, so maybe this one was dropped at the factory during assembly and not retrieved before the screen was set in place. I thought that this roller might have gotten into the drain/wash divertor valve and blocked it from moving to the drain position. I had to wonder why this had never happened before in 6 years of use, if indeed it actually was the culprit. I reassembled the parts and after allowing the dishwasher to fill with water, I ran the dishwasher through a complete wash cycle by manually moving the timer dial on the door one click at a time. In each case where the pump motor is running, I can hear the water being sprayed inside. You can count each revolution of the sprayers by the sound of the water hitting the inside of the door. NOT ONCE do I hear any water being pumped into the sink drain pipe. Now I wonder about that mystery roller. If it was dropped during O.E.M. assembly, was the mounting screw also dropped and might the screw be jamming or binding the drain/wash divertor valve? Or does this indicate failure of the "drain motor"? Might this be a defective timer failing to activate the drain motor to the drain position?
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26th, 2006 10:01 pm |
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2nd Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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This is probably going to end up being the strangest post ever to this forum. Upon "digging" a bit deeper into the sump cavity components, I find that this dishwasher has an actual, sure enough, "Drain Motor"!! Complete with impeller. I was not comprehending the true nature of the parts and their function when I looked into the sump the first time. I was under the impression that the machine had ONE pump, with a solenoid or motor controlled diverter valve to determine whether the water was emptied out to drain, or recirculated to wash. Sheesh!! Do I feel dumb or what? Anyhow, now that I know the real situation (as to the components and their functions) how can I test to determine whether the fault is the drain motor or the timer? When I inspected the drain motor impeller, it was intact and shows no signs of having eaten anything it shouldn't have. I turned the impeller by hand and it turns. The impeller is secure on the impeller shaft. The check ball in the impeller case cover is intact and free moving. How can I get a wiring schematic for testing purposes?
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| Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2006 07:20 pm |
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3rd Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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I guess I don't understand how this forum works. I was under the impression that one could post a problem or question and receive a solution or answer. So far I have not gotten any response. Have I committed some faux pas or offended somebody? Does one need to contribute to the "Beer Fund" to earn a response?
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| Posted: Wed Mar 1st, 2006 07:24 pm |
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4th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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Frigidaire model MDB122RFS0, You are fine, looks like you just fell thru the crack somehow, one of the Frigidaire techs should help your shortly, I do apologize for the lack of response you have received... ...we do not work on Frigidaire so cannot help you...sorry.
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2006 06:51 am |
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5th Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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Thanks Pegi for the acknowlegement. I was beginning to think "I" was the only one seeing the posts. I have been browsing around and am favorably impressed by what I have read so far. You folks keep up the good work.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2006 11:07 am |
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6th Post |
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Budget Appliance Repair Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Ok, the check ball has nothing to do with draining, (it is used to switch the flow of water between the bottom and top spray arm. They don't both operate at the same time like most dishwashers, they alternate back and forth). Now for your drain problem, you very well could have bad drain pump. You will need to remove the two wires that connect to it and check the ohms of the pump, (It should read around 4.3ohms), there is a thermal overload protector built into the pump motor and this could have went bad or just the windings themselves shorted out. If you don't have a test meter you can easily make a test cord , just an old lamp cord with spade connectors on the end plugged onto the pump and plugged into a regular 110volt socket, (the pump motor is just a 110volt motor so you won't hurnt it). If the pump motor doesn't operated when directly plugged in with a test cord then it's a sure thing, bad pump motor. If you have water in the machine and you plug the pump motor in with a test cord and the motor runs and drains the water out then you will have to do some more trouble shooting and check the wiring from the electronic control to the drain pump and if the wiring is ok then that would point to a problem in your electronic control drain circuit, that would be the only other things it could be if the pump is ok. If the drain pump runs when you hook it up to a test cord put water still won't drain out then you will need to be checking for a clogged up drain line. And here's the wiring diagram: CLICK HERE yours should be found folded up in the consule area where the electronic control module is located. Last edited on Thu Mar 2nd, 2006 11:12 am by Budget Appliance Repair ____________________ William Burk (Willie) Willie's Budget Appliance Repair Eureka, CA 95501 |
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| Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2006 05:06 pm |
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7th Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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Thanks BAP. I'm with you all the way as to the test cord set-up and will comply. I do have test meters as well. I printed the schematic, but nowI have more questions. On the schematic, the "DRAIN MOTOR" (conn # PT04, violet wire) is listed at 28 Ohms, and the "PUMP MOTOR" (conn # PT03, blue wire) is listed at 4.3 Ohms. Is the information on the schematic incorrect ? Also, the schematic has references to the following components: "MEMBRANE SWITCH", "ELECTRONIC CONTROL UNIT", and "DISPLAY". These imply (to me) that there is a "touch pad" selector, a digital display, and an electronic control module replacing a knob operated, motor driven, dial type timer. MY dishwasher has only a knob operated, dial type timer. there are no membrane switches or digital display. What's up with this? Did Frigidaire make an error in compiling the service literature? I am not so concerned with the references to the type of control and display being incorrect for my model of DW, but I AM concerned about the apparent contradiction between what you said in your text reply and the information shown on the schematic about the resistance value of the two motors. In your text reply you stated that a good pump should test at 4.3 Ohms. The schematic shows the 4.3 value to be for the "PUMP MOTOR", and 28 Ohms for the "DRAIN MOTOR". My own thinking here is this: The "DRAIN MOTOR" is a much smaller motor meaning that it is necessarily wound with smaller wires. Smaller wires equals greater resistance to the flow of electrons and will result in a higher Ohm reading. Will the correct Ohm value for the "DRAIN MOTOR" please stand up? As to my dish washer have a motor driven, rotary timer: Shouldn't I be able to disconnect the wires from the "Drain motor", attach test leads of a VAC meter to the wires, and then operate the timer knob one click at a time to see if the timer is supplying power to them at several points as I advance through the entire cycle? Is there a water level switch or control that will " open circuit", preventing this test in the absence of water in the DW? There is a thermistor shown on the schematic, but I believe that would be present only if my DW has the electronic control unit. I may be completely off the mark, but I have doubts about the relevance of this schematic to my dish washer. ( understand that it is "bad manners" to question the teacher, but I also know from experience in other fields that incorrect information in technical manuals is not unheard of, and may linger forever without being corrected or superceded) At any rate, I will proceed with the testing of the "DRAIN MOTOR" using a test power cord. Also I will do a check of the Ohm reading of the "Wash Pump Motor" (which is presumed to be good at this time) to determine if the values in the schematic are right for that motor. I will post info as I obtain it. Thanks again.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 2nd, 2006 07:13 pm |
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8th Post |
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douggiestyle Master Appliantologist
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drain motor may be less efficient than the circulation motor.as it does not operate all the time and may have a higher pressure rating. but who cares. what is the reading you are geting from the drain pump? two pumps are quiter. that is what bosch told frigidaire when they designed that dishwasher for them. also allows the pump to be mounted closer to the floor giving more room inside the dishwasher. until the two pump design became common all or most dishwashers had a vertically mounted pump shaft which took up more room under the dishewasher.
____________________ http://www.kandnsales.net |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 10:24 am |
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9th Post |
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Budget Appliance Repair Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Sorry for the confusion, my error, was in a hurry and in my mind pump motor = pump out, I was wrong schematic is correct. Also as you will notice, I was wrong about the thermal overload protector also, that is in the main PUMP motor not the DRAIN motor. As regards to the the electronic control as shown in the schematic and you saying yours has a manual turn knob timer, did you by any chance just give us a model# off the book and not off the model/serial# tag on the appliance, (sometimes the books are for a number of different models. You must always give the actual model/serial# off the tag on the appliance itself when asking for help or ordering parts). Well, looking at the same Sears website where that schematic was listed for your model the actual parts break for the control panel shows a regular manual knob turned timer not the electronic control so they must have attached the wrong wiring schematic to your model reference. Did you look in the control consule area on your machine for your wiring diagram? As to attaching your VOM to the wiring going to the DRAIN pump motor and slowing turning the timer knob click by click, YES, you should read the 110volts at those wires at every drain cycle if the probem isn't in fact a bad set of contact points in the timer, and NO -- having no water in the machine shouldn't have any effect on this it will drain even if it is empty.
____________________ William Burk (Willie) Willie's Budget Appliance Repair Eureka, CA 95501 |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 06:01 pm |
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10th Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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William, thanks for confirming the Ohm value for the motors. I am attaching an image to show what I am seeing on the ID label inside the cabinet, right side, front edge vertical surface. I do not have the owner's manual. The DW came with the house but the manual did not. Former owners of house likely of the genre which does not retain "technical stuff". I have not looked inside the control console for a schematic and will probably stay out of there unless VOM tests reveal a defective timer. Testing will have to wait until this weekend because of more urgent matters today. Besides, I truly believe my wife is ENJOYING her renewed friendship with Dawn. I will post further results unless I find that the DW has a clogged drain hose. In that case........you will never hear from me again. (from embarrassment) Attachment: GIF_0626.gif (Downloaded 9 times)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 06:10 pm |
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11th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Users Manual Wiring Diagram Instillation Inst. Parts Manual These take a bit to load...be sure to wait...
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 06:28 pm |
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12th Post |
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man Fermented Grand Master of Appliantology 
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Dayyam, Pegi, that's a GOLDMINE!  LJ, you are one lucky dude!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 06:42 pm |
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13th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 07:17 pm |
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14th Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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Pegi: Thank you O Exalted one. This humble grasshopper is executing a deep and lengthy bow to you.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 07:21 pm |
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15th Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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SAM: EurekaCalifornia !!! I agree!!! They is gold in them thar hills. Great demonstration of Appliantology prowess!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 07:25 pm |
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16th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Thanks and you are welcome....I may not know these units but sometimes can come up with the goodies...
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 07:31 pm |
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17th Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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 You sure can! I will get this thing by the...uh.. tail.. this weekend. My wife will probably want to make a contribution to the Beer Fund after this is final. ( I hate to step between her and Dawn. Would it be wiser to wait until NEXT weekend to close on this problem?)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 3rd, 2006 07:35 pm |
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18th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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LOL, naw, go ahead and get the thing fixed and you may get your reward this weekend.....
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Sat Mar 4th, 2006 06:52 am |
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19th Post |
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LJWalker Grasshopper
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Heh! Heh! Heh! Heh! OK, this weekend it will be.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 4th, 2006 04:57 pm |
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20th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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