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 Moderated by: BrntToast, RegUS_PatOff, appl.tech.29501 Search Our Sites for More Info! Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3   
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Kenmore 106.73182302, 106.73192302  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 08:15 am
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J.C. Beat
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I need refresh your memory that before I hard wired past the bad overload I am fairly certain I had tested voltage going into relay and overload and it was 120 volts

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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 08:17 am
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did you measure the current Draw of the old Fridge ?

depending on how you hard-wired the Compressor, you may have burned it out.

 



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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 08:21 am
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J.C. Beat
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ran a wire from red wire straight to common pin, the top pin. Left relay alone.

I did not have an AC amp meter, and cant remember if I measured voltages into compressor.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 08:25 am
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J.C. Beat wrote: ran a wire from red wire straight to common pin,

that should be OK ..

Compressors / bearings / etc, wear out sometimes depending on continous running becasue of a sealed system leak, etc..

over-heated Compressor because of a bad Condenser Fan / clogged / dirty Condenser (for Compressor cooling)



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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 08:26 am
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J.C. Beat
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But what if one of them is bad ?. I want to measure amp draw of compressor independent of relay, starter and capacitor. Hence the test chord idea i read about on the web. A diagram has  provided in this thread and I think it could be just the ticket if  can get the details.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 08:34 am
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J.C. Beat
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The fan next to the compressor ran - before and after hard wiring and after compressor died, but I never did test it for anything. The fan in the freezer section ran after I hard wired. But don't recall if it ran before I hard wired or after compressor died. Also I never did test it for anything. Before dumping fridge I ripped out most components and still have all the fans and more.

My meter cant read AC amps only AC Volts and going out to by an upgraded meter soon. Too late for Kenmore but will be ready for New Whirpool.

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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 12:47 pm
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You just simple had a bad compressor, it happens. If you want to make a test cord you can, but its really not necessary. A simple clamp meter is sufficient for testing the amp draw of the compressor through the entire system. The fans don't draw enough amperage to interfear. Hopefully if you haven't you will fill out the MFG. Warranty card and purchase the extended warranty. If you want to have a spare relay on hand just get the recommended replacement, not a 3 in1 kit. The relay generally goes bad within the first 5 years. Keep the condensor clean (yearly) as well as the front kick plate.



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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 06:58 pm
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J.C. Beat
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We lost alot of food and plus  the aggravation so next time I want to be able to resolve the fridge problem fast. This has happened to me more than once.

I would like to have test chord if I can find details. This thread has diagram - but i posted advisor for some more details.

Just realized that the old mechanical Embraco relay switch ( I  tested it according to the Embraco compressor manual and is probably good) may work with the new fridge.  Recall new fridge has "overload, capacitor, relay" while old fridge only a "relay,overload". But page 24 of Embraco compressor manual tells you how to modify the mechanical compressor to work with a capacitor start !

So for New Fridge - maybe I should just buy a new capacitor to have on hand. I assume I can still hard wire bypass the overload switch for a short while but this time will put in a 10 amp fuse.

Armed with my modified old relay and a new capacitor I can check if the compressor starts and if it does can check its amp draw. If it dont start may need more trouble shooting, but will be way ahead time wise.

 

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 Posted: Tue Aug 24th, 2010 07:40 pm
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That is not a start capacitor, its a run capacitor, the unit will run without it. The relay and overload is the only thing you may want to have on hand. Generally the overload doesn't go bad unless the compressor shorts or is constantly drawing high amps. Only seen a couple dozen fail Vs. 1000's of relays.



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 Posted: Wed Aug 25th, 2010 06:47 am
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Realy grateful for pointing the capacitor distinction.  

So If I  buy the proper overload and proper relay for my new fridge. I can test compressor amp draw for say 10 minutes. If the amp draw stays pretty much around 3 amps I can sleep well ?

If amp draw is rising above 3, (and condenser fan is turning) can I assume compresser is bad and go shopping for new fridge ?

P.S. I heard there is a megaohm meter (about $300) that can check a compressor but they are expensive and useful to a repairman, as opposed to a layman.

 

 

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 Posted: Wed Aug 25th, 2010 06:55 am
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J.C. Beat
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Isnt that true only if origanal parts are working ?

I need more details on test chord design to use for a fridge with overload, relay and capacitor for compressor.

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 Posted: Wed Aug 25th, 2010 12:44 pm
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All you have to do is make a test cord with you old frige cord, relay and working over load. Hot side to overload and neutral to relay. Seperate the cord some so you will have enough room to attach a clamp meter. Plug the cord straight into the wall. You can do all the test you need to do with a $10 clamp meter.

If you want to buy a new overload and relay kit for your test cord, just go to repair clinic and get a 8201799.



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 Posted: Thu Aug 26th, 2010 05:23 am
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J.C. Beat
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Recall old fridge used mechanicle Embraco relay, and overload. No capacitor. The overload died and Embarco compressor died.

Brand New Fridge uses capacitor, relay and overload. Its a Panasonic compressor.

Your post said nothing of  the capacitor - what if it has gone bad - would your test chord design get the compressor started ? One of the prior posts showed a test chord with a capacitor in it but your does not.

Oh and 2 more things -

Why do I need an overload in the test chord ? would not a 10 amp fuse in in a hard wire be ok ? Actually since you are checking amp draw you dont need a fuse either ?

Could I use my old mechanical relay on the new fridge if it fits ?

Would hate to buy new "relay, overload" for new fridge if new fridge compresser had gone bad, unless the test chord could be used for yet another new fridge.  

Appreciate your patience.

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 Posted: Thu Aug 26th, 2010 10:20 am
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denrayr
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I've been replacing a lot of bad overloads lately, and none of the compressors were faulty. the overload is to protect the windings from overheating. i think you short cycled the compressor when you added the fuse and cooked the windings. Your fuse would have protected the wiring from a short circuit, but not the windings from a seized compressor or a compressor that has been short cycled (turned off and back on in less than ten minutes). When a compressor is running it pumps up the high side of the system. if the compressor is turned off the high side pressure is too much for the compressor to be able to start against. You must wait ten minutes or so for the pressure to stabilize before the compressor can be restarted.

I dont mean to make you feel bad, but i think you should know what possibly happened so you can learn from your mistake.

For a novice, i would say a test cord is a bad idea since it carries the risk of compressor damage if used improperly.

Stop worrying about what could happen to your new fridge and enjoy it. There are so many other components that could fail over time besides the compressor.



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 Posted: Fri Aug 27th, 2010 05:04 am
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J.C. Beat
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Appreciate your input - dont worry about my feelings.

This is long thread so you probably dont know the details. Here is summary.

Compressor was not running and was down for hours. Overload  had blown. 

1) Compressor seemed good based on ohm readings and no continuity to ground.

2) Mechanical relay tests OK per Embraco compressor manual (the flip upside, right side up and testing for continuity between various pins). Some repair shops has now told me thats no proof relay is good. So who do I believe ?

3) I hardwired red wire to top compressor pin and compressor starts and runs for 40 minutes fine. I disconnect it.

4) I think I then went for a walk. Came back say a half hour later and decided to put a fuse in the hard wire.  But now when I hard wire back on compressor it dont start !Pins have no continuity to common pin. No continuity any pin to ground. I assume the compressor is bad.

6) About 12 hours later compressor has no continuity to common pin. No continuity any pin to ground.  Relay still tests OK

7) I have heard from about 6 "experts" some in this thread which you can read, some not . Half say what I did was bad half say it was not. Unless the relay was actualy bad I dont understand why what I did was bad. If I simply replaced the overload it probably would have blown again since the underlying problem had not been fixed. And what could have been the underlying problem ?

I would appreciate comments.

 

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 Posted: Fri Aug 27th, 2010 05:13 am
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J.C. Beat
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All ye experts this is Grasshopper speaking -

The idea is to simulate a relay - when button is pressed for maximum  5 seconds  power goes to start and so the compressor should run if good. Just today I have found the design in an almost 50 year old fridge repair book. I am still trying to find out  if such a design is ok for modern compressors.

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 Posted: Fri Aug 27th, 2010 12:49 pm
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As previously stated overloads can just fail some times but it your case since your compressor was bad its most likely the cause.

What "button" are you talking about?

Glad to help ya, but your are going to the extreme when a simple clamp meter can check and confirm your problem in most cases. Or a simple cord.



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 Posted: Sat Aug 28th, 2010 06:11 am
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That was my reply to a "Fellow" who in an earlier part of this  thread  was asking about the test chord diagram posted even earlier in the thread.

You were a great help.

Right now I am in the process of getting the service manual for my New Fridge.

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