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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > ER FF, replaced parts, won't go away.... |
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| ER FF, replaced parts, won't go away.... | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 02:37 am |
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1st Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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LG LFX25960ST A few days ago the display showed ER FF, in the past, just waiting it out or power cycling the fridge would clear the code and all would be well. Not this time. To skip all the story telling here's what I've done so far Pulled back of freezer off, no frost at all, and both fans were clear and able to spin. Removed Freezer fan and tested it against a 12v source, it did not spin. Removed Ice Fan (a known good fan) and tested it, it also did not spin, figured maybe I wasn't testing it correctly. Checked the wiring harness, both fans were receiving 12v, so I figured it must be a bad freezer fan. At this point I plugged both fans back in, powered up the fridge and now neither of them were working and the display said ER IF. Now, I assumed that either the motherboard was dying or I killed the other fan trying to test it. So, to be safe, I ordered BOTH fans and a new main board. I installed the new fans and main board and I'm back to square one, that would be the ice fan is running, the freezer fan is not running and the display says ER FF. Any thoughts on this? My only guess at this point is that possibly the wire that tells the MB that the Freezer fan is spinning is damaged, but I'm looking for other ideas before I pull the fridge out again. Last edited on Sat Nov 21st, 2009 02:39 am by Joey P |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:03 am |
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2nd Post |
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kdog Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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DC fan motors are a real pain to test, you must have the harness connected to the motor as you measure for the 12 vdc. as the voltage can vary when under load so you need to ensure there is indeed 12 "running" volts It's also pointless to try and measure the resistance of the motors as they always measure high resistance that make no sense, and many are equipped with permanent magnets Last edited on Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:05 am by kdog ____________________ Can Ye spare some 'cutter me brutha ? http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/kdog/ |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:03 am |
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3rd Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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Just went and double checked my voltages. The Ice Fan is putting out 24 volts and is spinning just fine. The freezer fan (at the source) is putting out 12v. It's doing it regardless of the door position, I assume this is because it's throwing the ER FF error so it's putting out that voltage constantly trying to get it to start spinning, which it's not. Any ideas? Also, I tried plugging in the old freezer fan and it still dosen't work. Now, I'm under the impression that the ice fan is a two speed fan, would cutting it's harness off (the old one) and putting the wires in the freezer fan connector tell me anything? I assume it should spin up, but I want to make sure that's safe, I'd hate to blow out the new mb.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:07 am |
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4th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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Okay, I wrote my reply before seeing that kdog. Ya know, the funny thing is, when I just checked the voltage I was having a hard time getting my probes into the back of the harness, so I unplugged the harness and tested it that way. I wonder if they were in and there was no voltage with the load attached. It's odd that this would happen with two different motherboards (and motors) so I'm wondering if maybe it is a wiring issue. Maybe one of the wires is shorting to ground somewhere along the line. Is it possible to have a short (a very small one) that shows 12v with no load, but 0v with a load?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:08 am |
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5th Post |
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kdog Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Check the diagram and see if the ff (freezer fan) is supposed to get 24 vdc as well, that could be why it is not running
____________________ Can Ye spare some 'cutter me brutha ? http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/kdog/ |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:10 am |
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6th Post |
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kdog Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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You could verify that by measuring the voltage at the output pins on the board (with load attached)
____________________ Can Ye spare some 'cutter me brutha ? http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/kdog/ |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:19 am |
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7th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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The manual says both ice fan and freezer fan should have 13-15 volts. It also says that the ice fan speeds up when it is in Ice Plus Mode so I assume that's why it's getting 24v right now. I thought power cycling the fridge cancels Ice Plus, but I don't know why else it would be getting 24v.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:24 am |
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8th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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Okay, getting 12v at the main board with the fan attached and not spinning.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:43 am |
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9th Post |
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kdog Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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What happens to the voltage if you spin the fan manually?
____________________ Can Ye spare some 'cutter me brutha ? http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/kdog/ |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:52 am |
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10th Post |
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kdog Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Joey P wrote: The manual says both ice fan and freezer fan should have 13-15 volts. It also says that the ice fan speeds up when it is in Ice Plus Mode so I assume that's why it's getting 24v right now. I thought power cycling the fridge cancels Ice Plus, but I don't know why else it would be getting 24v. 12 v is not 13-15v
____________________ Can Ye spare some 'cutter me brutha ? http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/kdog/ |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 04:55 am |
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11th Post |
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kdog Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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You might also try disconnecting the fan that is getting the 24v and see what happens to the 13v-15v fan
____________________ Can Ye spare some 'cutter me brutha ? http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/kdog/ |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 05:05 am |
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12th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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kdog wrote: Joey P wrote:Analog multimeter it's about 1/4 of the way to 50v. I'm working on the assumption that it's within the 13-15 volt range.The manual says both ice fan and freezer fan should have 13-15 volts. It also says that the ice fan speeds up when it is in Ice Plus Mode so I assume that's why it's getting 24v right now. I thought power cycling the fridge cancels Ice Plus, but I don't know why else it would be getting 24v. Anyways, interesting turn of events. I checked at the board and it's reading 12v (or 13-15 I assume), checked the voltage at the fan harness and couldn't get a reading (like before), BUT when I spin the fan by hand the needle twitches so that tells me the probes are making contact and there's something else going on. I didn't think to disconnect the motor and check the voltage though, I'll go do that. Also, the Ice Fan stopped, but I wonder if it's going into harvest mode, I'll keep an eye on it.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 05:09 am |
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13th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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Ice fan back on, so disregard that comment Checked voltage at harness with fan attached, nothing. Unplugged fan and rechecked voltage and was getting 12v (or 13-15 probably). Where does that put us?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 05:10 am |
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14th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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Also, I'll be going to bed soon....do I leave it on or turn it off? There's nothing in there to go bad, so I should probably pull the plug huh?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 01:06 pm |
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15th Post |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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is ER FF the only error ? voltage test are always with loads connected ... (unless otherwise specified) Did you do the Function Tests on page 33 to see if the Freezer Fan runs ? There are some (separate) Sensors for the Fans ...
____________________ RegUS_PatOff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw my video production: “Easter Seals Walk With Me” (also in HQ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBiLyYXMiA Upon leaving this Earth "Do you want the Smoking or Non-Smoking section ?" |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 01:30 pm |
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16th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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I'm not entirely sure. It's the only code that shows, but at the beginning when it started showing the code ER IF it wasn't showing the FF code even though I'm sure the FF still wasn't working. If it's supposed to cycle through them or something like that, then yes, it's the only code. I did try that test at one point, but I have no idea what the results were, so I'll try it again. Other then the fan turning on, is there anything else I should be checking for while in this test?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 05:20 pm |
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17th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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Okay, I stopped home for lunch and decided to put it into the test mode. I plugged it in, and hit the test button, but it was acting odd. By odd, I mean it would only stay in test mode for a few seconds. If it means anything, the freezer fan didn't spin up. Anyways, when I get home I'm going to power up the fridge and let it sit for 10 minutes and then I'll try the test mode again and let you know of the results. Anything else I should be checking while it's in test mode?
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21st, 2009 10:01 pm |
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18th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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Just took a look at the service manual regarding the test mode, it mentioned that you can't put it into test mode while a code is displayed and if the fridge throws a code while in test mode, it'll cancel test mode. So any thoughts on how to proceed?
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 01:43 am |
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19th Post |
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kdog Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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On page 23 of the manual it explains that when you first apply power to the unit, the components all go through a startup and then shut off again, after 7 minute delay, the fridge will start normal operation. I have used this in the past during troubleshooting to verify the ability of the control to power the defrost circuit while in failure mode, should be able to test fan output this way as well. Also further on the manual describes how to check the secondary outputs from the transformer in the control to fan circuit.
____________________ Can Ye spare some 'cutter me brutha ? http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/kdog/ |
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| Posted: Sun Nov 22nd, 2009 01:48 am |
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20th Post |
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Joey P Grasshopper
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So, if I understand you correctly, what I should do is unplug the fridge, put my probes into the back of the freezer fan wiring harness, plug it in and see if I get voltage? Also, can you send me a link to the manual you're using, based on something you said earlier and this comment, you're working out of a different one then what I have.
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