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refrigerator and a 3 in 1  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 06:52 am
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hoptoad



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how do i determine horsepower on a compressor?

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 Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 07:11 am
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RegUS_PatOff
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Compressor model number ?



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 Posted: Sat Oct 31st, 2009 08:39 am
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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3-in-1's have their place, just be careful not to misuse them. See this bulletin from Electrolux.



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 Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 12:11 pm
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vee8power
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That bulletin set off alarms for me. I have installed many hard start kits; after installation, I check the amperage draw of the compressor. The bulletin is vague though. Whaddya mean tap the system? Tapping the system means adding leak-prone tapping valves. Are they suggesting a technician recover and recharge to diagnose a non-operating compressor? According to page 123 of this document,

 http://www.supco.com/images/pdfs/2009%20HVAC%20Caralog/2009%20Catalog%20Refrigeration%20chemical%20for%20Web.pdf 

selecting the proper size and type hard start kit is what to do. For a domestic refrigerator, 1/4 to 1/3 horesepower.  What am I missing here?

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 Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 05:45 pm
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kdog
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If the compressor cannot run efficiently with the matched relay, then the compressor requires replacement. If you are needing to add start capacitor etc. to make it run, it's pooched



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 Posted: Mon Nov 2nd, 2009 09:41 pm
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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kdog wrote:
If the compressor cannot run efficiently with the matched relay, then the compressor requires replacement. If you are needing to add start capacitor etc. to make it run, it's pooched

Wisdom! Let us attend!



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 Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 05:55 am
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certified tech group 51
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I have used 3-N-1 start devices with no problems..If the compressor has a difficulty in starting, more of a mechanical problem,,I will install a 3-N-1....I will check the condition of the windings with a Megohmmeter, see page 26 of the supco catalog.......Last week I did a refer at a 40 unit complex, Did not have a stock start package in the van and with people in the unit, I asked maintenance, do they have any empty units so I could rob a start package for it ( these were all twirlpool refers ) The second refer that I was at, had a 3-N-1 that i had installed over a year and a half ago.... ( shortest was 3 months )........I leave it up to the customer to decide what do they want to do....  I inform the customer that the  compressor is failing......$450.00 to 500.00 for a new compressor......OR...... install a 3-N-1 and start to save their money to buy a new refer................( P.S.  that includes checking the current draw and  installing the run cap... on all refers that get a 3-N-1..)

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 Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 12:22 pm
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Chat_in_RI



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My thinking on this one, started in another thread, was given the age of the unit, most likely replacing the compressor is uneconomical for the old spare fridge (that is way out of warranty) -- what would one have to lose by trying the a 3-in-1 in this case?



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 Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 01:55 pm
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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Chat_in_RI wrote:
My thinking on this one, started in another thread, was given the age of the unit, most likely replacing the compressor is uneconomical for the old spare fridge (that is way out of warranty) -- what would one have to lose by trying the a 3-in-1 in this case?

I agree with this, too. The real issue here is this: Who is doing the repair? If a DIYer trying to get a few more days(?), months(?), years(?) out of old beer fridge, then 3-in-1's can be a completely viable way to get the repair done as cheaply as possible and take your chances- only a few bucks (for the relay) ventured and not much downside.

If, OTOH, a professional appliantologist is doing the repair, then how do you charge for this? The cost picture is much more muddied because there is the issue of the service call fee. What if you replace the relay with a 3-in-1 and then the compressor craps out next week? Do you refund the service call fee? Warn the customer up front and let them choose (in which case, I guarantee you'll still be blamed if the repair fails soon)?

If I were fixing one of my old beer coolers (I have several), I would not hesitate to use a 3-in-1. But I never use 3-in-1's in my service bidness.



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 Posted: Tue Nov 3rd, 2009 02:12 pm
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hoptoad



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I would only use one on what I lovingly refer to as "beer and bait" refrigerators...old units WAYYYYY out of warranty out in someone's garage. Just not sure how to determine horsepower on the compressor to know which one to use. I explain to the customer the perils of going this route. I have a business in a rural area where I run into a LOT of these. You wouldn't believe how many people out here have a second old fridge for pop, beer, garden produce, etc.

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 Posted: Thu Nov 5th, 2009 10:31 pm
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grey one



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Back in my Sears days , I was told to only use the 3 - 1 as a temp. fix until the proper relay etc. could be ordered. Something about new fridges having a run cap. and the 3-1 having a start cap.  ,  which affects the amp. draw of the comp. The 3-1 will speed up the death of the comp. If this is true or not , I do not know  -  kdog should know of whom I speak..

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 Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 12:31 pm
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vee8power
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In my business, customers don't pay a service call fee if they are paying for a repair. I will, however, discount the cost of the hard start kit and installation from a compressor installation. This way, they have a third option. If, after hearing the risk, they want the 3 in 1 installed, they have chosen an inexpensive, albiet risky alternative to a new fridge or a new compressor. I want to continue to offer this alternative. Of the 50 or so of these that I have installed, 2 have come back, one of them wanting a new compressor. Is this number too high to continue to offer this service?

The selling points of the people offering the start pack are that it's the only part I need to carry for a domestic refrigerator(great), and that the technology employed ensures the capacitor and start winding is out of the system once the compressor starts. You can leave the run cap in(makes sense). 

I think there will always be customers who blame me for their problems no matter what I do. (You know the guy who asks you why you don't carry a bake element for his 40 year-old oven on your truck.) Thankfully, they are few and far between. I guess that's the risk I am taking when installing a 3 in 1. This guy goes away thinking that I am costing him money

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