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| GE Artica Side by Side Model PSH25NGSA BV | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Sep 28th, 2009 10:37 pm |
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1st Post |
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prnewell Merit Apprentice Appliantologist
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This refrigerator is probably 6 years old and has never worked correctly since the day I bought it new. I had the GE technicians out to "repair" it innumerable times with no apparent improvement in its performance. The original problem was a failure of the freezer side to maintain a consistently cold temperature. Although the display would indicated a setting of 0 F, measurement with a thermocouple would more often than not indicate a temperature of 10-15 F (as well as my soft ice cream). Occasionally it would get down to zero but more often than not it was significantly warmer. A secondary problem was a consistent tendency for the ice from the ice maker to partially melt and refreeze into a big chuck. Every few weeks or so I would have to dump the chunks out and let it start making cubes again. It "worked" this way for years. Having no confidence in the GE technicians, once the warranty ended I just lived with it. The irony of the situation was that this unit costs more than $3,000 and the only reason we bought it was that it would accept wooden panels that match our kitchen cabinets. Our ~20 year old $700 Kenmore is still working like a champ with no problems in the garage. A couple of months ago a new failure mode started to appear. For no apparent reason the freezer side would have occasional warm ups where 25-50% of the ice would melt and create icicles throughout the Freezer. When we would discover the situation, the temperature had normally gone below freezing again so all the melted ice had refrozen. This happened at least 3 different times, maybe four. Finally, about a month ago the fresh food side warmed to perhaps 50 F. I traced the problem to a totally frozen evaporator on the fresh food side. (This model has separate evaporator coils and refrigerant circuits for each side). I disassembled the cowling around the evaporator and thawed it out with a hair dryer, put everything back together and the whole unit seemed to recover to its normal performance that existed before the more recently appearing failure mode. Unfortunately, every 5 days or so the fresh food evaporator freezes up again. I can't live with it like this any more. What I think I know follows: The evaporator fan on the freezer side only runs in high and medium mode. Many times when I open the freezer and hold the door switch the fan does not run at all. It also often does not run when the self test diagnostic ( 1 1 ) for the fan is run. The other two fans seem to always work properly. The more I study this thing the more I suspect that the evaporator fan itself is defective and probably has been so from the time I bought the unit. Its failure would seem to explain the lack of consistent low temperatures throughout the freezer. When the freezer is cooling down after I've had it powered off to work on it, it has plenty of cooling power but with no low speed fan all the cold air must settle to the bottom. The motherboard was replaced during the original warranty by GE, but its replacement had no discernable effect on the poor cooling performance in the freezer at the time. Two thermistors were replaced, twice!, by the GE techs as well, also with no discernable affect. What I suspect: Since the freezer evaporator fan is failing to circulate the air when the freezer would normally be at steady state, the compressor runs most, if not all of the time trying to get the thermistor in the center wall of the freezer to achieve the set point temperature. I suspect that the valve that directs the refrigerant to either one or both of the evaporators is allowing more refrigerant to get to the fresh food evaporator than it needs which overwhelms the ability of the "warm" refrigerator air to melt (per the factory manual) the frost that forms on the fresh food evaporator during its defrost cycle. I plan to replace both the evaporator fan and the motherboard. Should I be looking for anything else? Thanks in advance for any help. I have a manual that covers a model very similar to this unit in all meaningful respects. The unit passes all other self diagnostics. Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Newell
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 12:43 am |
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2nd Post |
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KurtiusInterupptus Sublime Master of Appliantology
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Paul, First of all, i hear you and i feel your pain. you wont have to look very far on this forum to find a sympathetic ear regarding ge refrigeration , particularly the dual evaporator models. you said 2 thermistors were replaced twice. which 2? did you know ,there is a thermistor on the back side of the ff evaporator thats sole mission is regulate when this coil needs an "off cycle" defrost ( no heater, just turn off refrigerant flow and run fan) . regulates both frequency and duration of defrosts. I had a dual evap ge drive me nuts with the same symptoms you are describing and this was the problem. i dont know if this is related to ,or will have any effect on your other symptoms, but it is also too cheap not to try. also definitely proceed with the freezer evap fan and motherboard replacement. the beast may benefit from the most recent incarnation of this colossal POS motherboard (# 5 or 6 by my memory)
____________________ As every cockroach knows , thriving on poisons is the secret of success. |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 02:55 pm |
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3rd Post |
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prnewell Merit Apprentice Appliantologist
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Great lead. I checked the FF evaporator thermistor this morning and it was reading 2.3K ohms while encased in ice (104 F per the manual). That is certainly my freeze up problem on the fresh food side. The two thermistors that had been previously replaced, twice, were the ones in the central wall of each compartment. I have the old thermistors and they are perfectly fine, so I will probably use one of them to replace the thermistor that has failed in the fresh food evaporator. Will also replace the motherboard and the freezer evaporator fan. Who knows, maybe I can get this thing to work.[size=]
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 03:16 pm |
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4th Post |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology 
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i wouldnt replace the motherboard or fan yet. your model uses a low production motherboard that hasnt recieved as many updates as the common one so you may get no benefit from doing so. your fridge came with the crappy thermistors and it would be wise to replace all of them with the new style ones. Bad thermistors can cause all of the symptoms you are describing. the evaperator thermistors are more prone to failure because they get wet on a consant basis.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 03:31 pm |
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5th Post |
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awp101 Master Appliantologist
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It's been a while since I touched one one of these (thanks goodness! ) but I recall doing many heater replacement kits on the FF evap. In your post I don't see where yours has had this done. There were several updates to the heater kit to keep the FF evap from freezing up.Also, and this may seem like common sense, if you're going to replace the thermistor make sure the unit is unplugged. We had several techs find out the hard way that you CAN replace the thermistor with the unit plugged in but you will kill the low voltage side of the motherboard. I know this happened with the standard SxS units and I bet it happens with the dual evaps as well.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 03:51 pm |
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6th Post |
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prnewell Merit Apprentice Appliantologist
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Thanks for your input. How would bad thermistors inhibit the evaporator fan from running for the diagnostic test that cycles through each of the fans, freezer, custom cool, and then fresh food. I put a voltmeter on the leads to the freezer evaporator fan last night while initiating the fan diagnostic and the voltage never exceeded 1.5 vDC for that fan, the other two always cycled normally. If the motherboard believes the freezer is fully satisfied from persumably "bad" thermistor signals does it inhibit the fan from running even during the diagnostic routine?
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 03:55 pm |
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7th Post |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology
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if the fan is running normally but not in diagnostics i wouldnt worry about it. the diagnostic cycles are pretty worthless on these fridges anyway. you have confirmed a bad part. why not replace it and see if it solves the rest of your issues?
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 04:15 pm |
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8th Post |
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man Fermented Grand Master of Appliantology 
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denrayr wrote:why not replace it and see if it solves the rest of your issues? Yea verily, Sublime Master denrayr doth speaketh wisdom. In accordance with the 8th Law of the Prophecy, we must fix obvious problems first. Let us attend!
____________________  If I've helped you with your repair, please consider supporting my flavorite charity: http://beer.fixitnow.com |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 05:17 pm |
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9th Post |
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prnewell Merit Apprentice Appliantologist
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The fan function is intermitent. Sometimes it runs, often times it does not. Shouldn't it run, at least on the lowest speed, at all times except for the defrost cycle? My freezer evaporator fan often fails to run when the actual freezer temperature is 10+ degrees above the set point. Please refer to my original post.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 07:08 pm |
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10th Post |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology
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the freezer fan wont run unless the freezer evaperator is at the proper temperature. The freezer evaperator doesnt get refrigerant directed to it until the refrigerator evaporator thermistor says its cold enough. If the refrigerator evaporator thermistor has been flaky for a while then it could be the source of your intermittent problem. I cant say for sure but it makes sense to me to fix what is broken and re evaluate after that.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Tue Sep 29th, 2009 09:35 pm |
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11th Post |
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KurtiusInterupptus Sublime Master of Appliantology
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paul, denrayer is right, this model uses a different main board than the colossal POS i referred to earlier, and while you might still have an issue with it and the evap fan, since you been dealing with this for 6 years, it couldn't hurt to replace just the gimpy thermistor first. and yes definitely get you a brand spanking new one- don't reuse those leftover ones
____________________ As every cockroach knows , thriving on poisons is the secret of success. |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 03:40 pm |
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12th Post |
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prnewell Merit Apprentice Appliantologist
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I replaced the fresh food side evaporator thermistor. All appearances are that the fresh food side is working perfectly now. Display reads 37F, measured temperature inside via thermocouple is 37F. Unfortunately, the story on the freezer side is not good. Within 24 hours of the thermistor replacement the freezer side malfunctioned in the following way. Display indicates freezer temperature of 0 F. Ice in bin is melting and dripping onto the shelf below where it is forming a stalagmite of ice as it freezes there. The freezer evaporator fan is not running. I measured the temperature inside the freezer at the top (52 F) and the bottom (2 F) of the compartment. The freezer evaporator fan had been running earlier as the freezer cooled down, but not now. When the motherboard was replaced ~4 years ago the technician left the original motherboard and I had saved it. Since it seemed apparent that the replacement motherboard was not working properly, I decided to reinstall the original motherboard as its replacement had not materially affected the performance of the unit at the time. With the original motherboard installed, the freezer evaporator fan seems to be working as expected, however there are still large discrepancies between the displayed temperature of the freezer and the measured temperature inside. When I got up early this morning the display indicated a freezer temperature of 0 F, the freezer evaporator fan was running and the measured temperature inside the freezer with a thermocouple was 18 F. After I opened and closed the freezer door several times the compressor kicked of and started to cool the freezer down toward the set point. With the original motherboard in place, the evaporator fan functions as would be expected under the diagnostic mode test which was rarely the case with the replacement motherboard. I also checked the readings from all four thermistors and they were consistent with the thermocouple measured temperatures in the vicinity of each thermistor. Any ideas on what I should do now? Thanks in advance. Paul Newell
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| Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 08:38 pm |
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13th Post |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology
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install a jumper at the board between the power and speed wires of the freezer fan motor to force the fan to run at high speed. wait an hour or two and see what happens with the temperature. i dont have a wiring diagram for your model so i cant tell you wich two wires to jumper. if you can post a copy of yours i can help point it out for you. If the freezer goes into a defrost during this test it will defrost all the food so stick around and keep an eye on it.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Thu Oct 1st, 2009 08:47 pm |
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14th Post |
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prnewell Merit Apprentice Appliantologist
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I've attached the schematic for my model. I would love guidence on which pins to jumper. Thanks! Attachment: Artica SxS Dual Evap Schematic.pdf (Downloaded 14 times)
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| Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 01:34 am |
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15th Post |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology
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jumper j2-4 (yellow with a black tracer) to j2-8 (red)
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 09:52 pm |
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16th Post |
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prnewell Merit Apprentice Appliantologist
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I jumped the terminals and achieved steady state high evaporator fan speed. Before installing the jumper the temperature was togglling between 6 and 7 F. For the first hour after installing the jumper the temperature continued to toggle between 6 and 7 F. The displayed temperature on the control panel always says 0 F thoughout this test and almost all the time. Over the last half hour or so the temperature has gradually moved down to 2 F. Curiously, if I complete a system reset form the diagnostic mode, the displayed temperatures will jump to values very near the acutual measured temperatures in the freeser and fresh food compartments. It seems that the mother board only updates the displayed value on a fairly infrequent basis under normal operating condirions. Have you observed this behavior in your experience? So far we have had no occurances of melting ice since I returned to the original mother board. The refrigerator display is generally closer to the acutual temperature in the fresh food side. I'm thinking the freezer evaporator fan is probably fine, but the mother board is flaky. Any other tests I should try? Not associated with any specific testing, I observed the temperature this moring and it stayed at -8 to -9 F for as long as I watched it, a half an hour or more. My guess is that this could have been a pre chill in anticipation of a defrost cycle, but I didn't have time to stay around and watch. Any other tests I should do before giving up on this mother board? There have been times when it sits right on 0 F for long periods. It is just totally inconsistent. I'll be out of town beginning tomorrow morning for a week, so I'll probably have to wait until I return to try any addtional tests that you might think would be helpful in the diagnosis. Thanks in advance. Paul Newell
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| Posted: Fri Oct 2nd, 2009 11:12 pm |
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17th Post |
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Mr_Fix_It Chief Apprentice Appliantologist
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Paul, I have a similar GE refrig (Model: PSC25SGSA) and I too am having issues like many others. I noticed you had access to the schematic do you also have the Service Manual for the SxS Dual Evap models. If so, I would certainly appreciate a post of it. This post helped me understand the operation of the defrost on the fridge side. I was trying to figure out how it would defrost. I still have to figure out how to get to the bottom of the FF evap to replace the thermistor. (FF Evap was iced up when I gained access) If you have any tips on that one I could use the help. I see you've already accomplished that one. Thanks Mr_Fix_It (Mark)
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| Posted: Sat Oct 3rd, 2009 01:22 am |
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18th Post |
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denrayr Sublime Master of Appliantology
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The only failure ive seen with that particular board is intermittent freezer fan motor operation, its really common. If you didnt see much of a change after installing the jumper i wouldnt worry about the display. Leave the board in and see what it does. If you have more cooling problems i would consider replacing the board.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 06:09 pm |
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19th Post |
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prnewell Merit Apprentice Appliantologist
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Good news. I believe my Refrigerator is materially fixed. It is definitely working better than it ever has since I purchased it new. I was still noticing some variation in the measured temperaure versus the displayed temperature and really wanted to see exactly what was going on. I purchased a data logger that measures and records the temperature on a defined interval over a span of days. The data says my freezer temp varies from -10F to +10f over several hours and then back down to -10F adn so on. It is reasonbly consistent. Is this wide of a swing in temperature what you would expect? I assume this is some concession to Energy Star complience, but that is just a guess. My melting ice problem in the freezer has been totally eliminated. I can certainly live with the way the unit is working, but am curious to know what the expected variation in freezer temperature "should" be. Paul Newell
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| Posted: Fri Nov 6th, 2009 09:40 pm |
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20th Post |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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prnewell wrote: ... curious to know what the expected variation in freezer temperature "should" be. depends on whether the temperature probe is in the "cold air steam". put the probe between or into a box/bag of frozen vegetables
____________________ RegUS_PatOff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw my video production: “Easter Seals Walk With Me” (also in HQ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBiLyYXMiA Upon leaving this Earth "Do you want the Smoking or Non-Smoking section ?" |
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