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| Moderated by: RegUS_PatOff, Pegi |
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| Whirlpool Top Mount Refrigerator | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 08:39 pm |
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61st Post |
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cdelsig Grasshopper
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The terminals on the original line up the same as the terminals on the new. The wires are in a plastic 'plug' that keeps them in line with the terminals. I didn't change the configuration of the wires in the plug and each wire seemed to attach to the terminals. Chris
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| Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 09:24 pm |
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62nd Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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Good, some ref.s do not have the plastic plug on block, so could be a problem. Only thing left to do is advance this timer into defrost and see if the heater does in fact come on. Pegi
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Sat May 7th, 2005 01:18 am |
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63rd Post |
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cdelsig Grasshopper
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Pegi, What purpose is the flying lead? How am I to know if the heater comes on after I advance the timer if I can't open it up? Will I be able to feel the heat through the back wall? How long does a defrost cycle last? If I wait until the refrigerator comes back on and expose the evaporator coils, if the coils are frosted (not likely to be heavy since it was defrosted completely 24 hours ago) at all, does that mean the heater did come on? Sooo many questions! lol! Chris
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| Posted: Sat May 7th, 2005 03:02 am |
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64th Post |
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PK Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The flying lead is to make the timer do 2 different things, according to how the box is wired from the factory. If the original design is on time every 8 hours defrost the black lead will be on # 1, which it defrosts every 8 yours for 21 minutes. If the black lead is on # 2 it means it defrosts every 8 hours COMPRESSOR RUN TIME, for 21 minutes. If it is wired wrong, the ref will not work right, The timer will not advance into defrost or it will go into defrost and not come back out again, since the cumulative compressor run time gives power thru the bi-metal. That is why it is important to wire it right. To see if the heater comes on, you can loosen the back panel, just prop it up there, so you can pull it out and peak behind it to see if the heater gets red. And then just set it pack in place if it does come on so the bi-metal will not open too soon. But you can look now and then to see what is happening. You wil really have to advance that timer after the bi-metal re-sets to give power to the heater to see if it comes on. If it comes on i would have to say try putting the black lead on the #1 termnal and see how it does. If it does not come on, you have a bad heater, bad bi-metal, or bad wires from the timer to the bi-metal or bad wires from the bi-metal to the heater. Let me know how this goes.......Pegi
____________________ "Serving North Central Texas & Southern Oklahoma Since 1978" |
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| Posted: Sat May 7th, 2005 04:30 am |
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65th Post |
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exsearsguy Sublime Master of Appliantology
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Chris,if you defrosted this fridge yesterday and only 20 degrees in the freezer,you've got problems beside defrost problems. Check your condenser fan motor. You,ve changed your timer so it's not likely that the heater is cycling on the defrost t'stat. Is your evaporator fan motor running? And if it is check and make sure that somebody hasn't changed it and put the blade on backwards.If you didn't have a heater,timer or t'stat this thing ought to be cold today.
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| Posted: Sat May 7th, 2005 04:35 pm |
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66th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Chris,I remembered something this morning around 2 A/M, when most of my best thoughts come to me. On these W/P defrost timers that black lead has caused us numerous problems because the slot that slides onto the timer terminal is too wide and does not make contact with the terminal. See if you can easily slide that black wire up and down on the terminal of the timer, but be sure to up-plug the box before doing this. If you can move it take some plyers and crimp down on both sides of the slot a little to make it smaller so it will be hard to slide down onto the teminal so it will make good contact. We have been having to do this with every timer before we install them into the frig. Pegi Last edited on Sat May 7th, 2005 04:38 pm by Pegi ____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Sat May 7th, 2005 05:54 pm |
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67th Post |
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The Seven Master Appliantologist
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cdelsig wrote:At what temperature(s) should the thermometer perform its functions? I noticed when I was installing the new one it mentioned 25° and 50°,
This is a "defrost thermostat" with cut-in (ON) at 25F and cut-out (OFF) at 50F. Most new Whirlpool fridges use a cut-out temperature at 60 to 70F. 50F cut-out is too low for Whirlpool fridge and will lead to "insufficient defrost heating" which will lead to the building up of frost. 8-10 min defrost heating ON-time is a bit short. Would normally expect 10-15 min out of a period of 21 min. Note that "Heavy frost" is building up in your picture. You still have "minor" defrost problem.
____________________ The Seven |
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| Posted: Sun May 8th, 2005 03:36 am |
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68th Post |
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PK Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Chris, if you were to by-pass the bi-metal as a test to see of the whole evaperator would defrost, watching carefully so you could turn the timer back out of defrost when all of the ice is gone so you do not melt all of the plastic in the freezer, this might indicate that 50* bi-metal is just to low. This might be cutting the heater off to soon. However from the looks of your evap in the photo the bi-metal is encased in ice so does not look like it could have cut the heater out. There has to be a very simple reason for no or incomplete defrost, something is getting overlooked. If you advance the timer into defrost it should come out within 21 minutes and the cooling system will kick back on. Is this happening??? If the box does not come out of defrost in about 21 minutes the timer is wired wrong, the black lead would have to be changed from terminal #2 to terminal #1. This is assuming you are advancing the timer till the loud click and no further. Pegi
____________________ "Serving North Central Texas & Southern Oklahoma Since 1978" |
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| Posted: Mon May 9th, 2005 02:40 am |
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69th Post |
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cdelsig Grasshopper
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Pegi, How do I bypass the t-stat? As of this evening (checked it when I got home from work), the freezer is 13° and the fresh compartment is 48°! There was very little air flow from the freezer to the fridge, pretty darn sure it's iced up evaporator coils at work again. So, my first post was 4/16 and here we are just over 3 weeks later and I have solved one problem (the freezer is plenty cold), but I have not solved the other (fridge is still not staying cold) and I do believe the coils are icing up worse (irrespective of frequency) than the first time I opened 'er up. How often does this stuff happen to you all in the field? I saw a mpeg of a soldier dropping a grenade in a topload washer. It is giving me ideas. Chris
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| Posted: Mon May 9th, 2005 02:50 am |
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70th Post |
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Rackshaw Grasshopper
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Could the problem be that the defrost drain is somehow plugged up enough such that it the water backs up, freezes, clogs up the the conduit between the freezer and the refrigerator, thus preventing air from getting to the refrigerator? Just a thought. How'd you unclog it I haven't the foggiest.
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| Posted: Mon May 9th, 2005 02:56 am |
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71st Post |
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cdelsig Grasshopper
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Rackshaw, First time I opened the freezer up, the drain was plugged (which is what I thought the problem was). The back wall of my freezer is painted metal and the paint is flaking off. The flakes worked their way into the drain and clogged it up solid. Since I cleared the drain and taken off all the loose paint, I've had no drainage problems. As a matter of fact, I used too much water thawing out the evap coils and my water dish overflowed! Unfortunately, a plugged drain isn't my issue. Chris
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| Posted: Mon May 9th, 2005 05:29 am |
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72nd Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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How fast the evaperator frosts over depends on how much moisture is gettng in the frig. How many times the doors are opened, how humid it is in your area right now, and how much hot food is put into the box. The frost/ice is just moisture inside the ref, that is freezing on the coils. On the defrost termination thermostat in the freezer, it usually has 2 wires. One wire in the ref. to the bi-metal the other side of the bi-metal to the heater, and the other side of the heater going back to the ref. to complete the circut. The wire to the bi-metal you would temporarily connect to the heater wire that the other side of the bi-metal went to. In other words, just remove the bi-metal from the freezer and take the wire that went to the bi-metal from the frig straight to the heater, just for a test. If the heater comes on and defrosts the box, you know this bi-metal could be the problem., or the timer is wired wrong. when the timer is turned to defrost you would have to have a broken heater since you have replaced the timer unless there is a broken wire in the circut somewhere/ .. If you trun the timer to defrost right now without doing anything to the defrost system and it defrost the coils ok, then the timer is wired wrong. We have never had the problems you are having since we know how to test everything and replace what is needed.
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Mon May 9th, 2005 05:13 pm |
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73rd Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Question Chris. When you discovered the defrost problem, why did you change the defrost timer in the first place? Do you know that it was bad? Or did someone tell you it could be the problem and replace it. Just cerious. Pegi
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Tue May 10th, 2005 02:52 am |
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74th Post |
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cdelsig Grasshopper
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Pegi, I described my problem(s) and first response was from Samurai to replace the timer and t-stat. Since one, in his experiences, was most likely to blame and standard ops are to replace one with the other, that was his advice. There was a question about the calrod heater and a description of the most common symptoms of a calrod heater failure (lots of smoke and soot, which are nonexistent in my particular case). So, if I connect the two wires leading to either side of the t-stat, that will have the same effect as completing the circuit and turning on the heater, right? Additionally, there is no break in the circuit from the temp increase, so I should be able to have the freezer wide open for full viewing? Is there any way the t-stat could be miswired? All the wiring in the evaporator area is controlled by those plastic clips. While that is fantastic and all, I didn't notice this beauty prior to removing the wires from the housing and connecting the new t-stat. Figuring the only options were open or closed, it didn't seem, nor does it seem now, that there would be an issue. Just want to cover my bases. Additionally, there is an unconnected 'plug' in the area of my timer and fridge controls. I can see no possible place they could have connected and the only thing I remember disconnecting in there was the old timer and that has been reconnected to the new. The old timer has no plug end to match the loose plug, either. Curiously, at least to my untrained mind, the ends are circular as if they were to go onto prongs, as opposed to sliding over blades like the rest of the wiring. Chris p.s. I read 9°/50° when I got home from work today. Nothing quenches your thirst like a 50° beverage, except any beverage colder than that!
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| Posted: Tue May 10th, 2005 04:54 am |
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75th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Not sure about that spare plug, but have read somewhere about it, seems it is eather a test plug of sorts or a plug in for a light or something, just ignore it. As far as the calrod heater, we have never seen one go up in smoke. Usually just breaks, will have a bad spot on it, or will look fine but is broken internally. Looking at it might not tell. Yes with the back off and the bi-metal bypassed you will be able to watch to see if the heater comes on and should not melt anything, but watch carefully because when the ice is gone could warp your fan blace or fan schrol/housing, so do not walk off if the heater comes on. If the heater does come on you know the bi-metal is bad or no power from the timer to the heater for some reason. Might indicate the timer is not advancing, wired wrong. Could you provide me with the wire colors that plug onto the timer from the frig?? I can look to see where the black wire should be. Your first plan of repair should have been to advance your original defrost timer into defrost to see if the heater came on. If it did you would know the timer was not advancing, and to replace it. If it did not come on you would have tested your heater and bi-metal to see which one was dead. So simple. I just hate what you are going thru right now. With the no defrost problem and long run time because the food side is warm, your compressor is running too much, is over heating. I hope is is not getting too damaged with the oil getting too hot all of the time. Let us get this problem solved, friend. Pegi
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Tue May 10th, 2005 10:12 am |
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76th Post |
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cdelsig Grasshopper
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Pegi, I did run a continuity test on the heater (unplugged the heater and probed that end). It read 21.9 ohms. I am going to have to bypass the tstat. I still have the original timer, if that makes a difference, The original tstat is long gone. I cut the wires very close to the unit so I could have more to hardwire the new tstat into (since everthing is 'plugged' in). Once this gets resolved, how do I go about getting a thermostat that goes up to 60° or 70°? Chris
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| Posted: Tue May 10th, 2005 07:07 pm |
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77th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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The correct part numbers for the W/P bi-metal is 4387499 which any parts supplier would have, including this site. The temperature of the original would have been on the part, like L70-40, so not sure what temp it was. Your temp might be ok, just seems low for W/P. If it is the wrong temperature it would still give power to the defrost heater if they both are good, just might turn the heater off too soon before all of the ice is removed. I still need the wire colors to the defrost timer from the box.
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Tue May 10th, 2005 07:10 pm |
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78th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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You said you still had the original timer, which terminal numbers were the 2 external wires going to???
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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| Posted: Tue May 10th, 2005 10:34 pm |
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79th Post |
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cdelsig Grasshopper
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Pegi, The original leads were on 2 and 3 (which are the outside posts). I haven't opened the fridge back up to see the colors of the wiring to the timer. I will be doing so tonight, along with bypassing the tstat to see what happens. Chris
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| Posted: Tue May 10th, 2005 10:37 pm |
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80th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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OK that tells me the timer is wired right  good to go there....
____________________ Moderator & Assistant Admin. for Servicetechhelp Associaton, Inc. http://www.servicetechhelp.com STH HELPDESK URL.... http://www.servicetechhelp.com/h2desk/ ___________________________________ For Gordon... http://serviceeveryday.com/ |
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