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The Seven
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Posted: Sun May 1st, 2005 17:17 |
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cdelsig wrote:
If my coils are full of frost, which is what I suspect with the presence of frost on the back wall of my freezer, what does that mean?
It sounds you still have a defrost problem.
Could you take a photo of the frost on the evaporator coil?
I did replace the 10-hour timer with the 8-hour universal timer recommended.
Are you sure that the connection of the new timer is correct? For incorrected connection, the timer would always stay in "cooling cycle" (or in "defrost cycle").
Do you know how to measure the resistance of the defrost heater? To verify the heater is OK.
Do you know how to measure the voltage at the heater terminals when the timer is manually advanced to defrost cycle? To verify the proper voltage to the heater.
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
Fermented Grand Master of Appliantology
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Posted: Sun May 1st, 2005 18:46 |
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| Sounds like it's just a matter of getting the controls set at the optimum settings. Here's a good explanation of how the controls in the refrigerator work.
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referman
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Posted: Sun May 1st, 2005 21:44 |
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hey guys lets get back to basics here would it not make sense to by pass the def tstat
and advance the timer to see if the heater energizes ive replaced a few calrod heaters in my day
though i think there more reliable than glass tube heaters
Last edited on Sun May 1st, 2005 21:45 by referman
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
Fermented Grand Master of Appliantology
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Posted: Mon May 2nd, 2005 06:21 |
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| He's installed a new defrost thermostat and defrost timer.
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Pegi
Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
| Joined: | Tue May 3rd, 2005 |
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Posted: Tue May 3rd, 2005 19:26 |
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| Ice cream freezes at 10*. When you replaced the defrost timer and the defrost termination thermostat did you be sure to defrost the evaperator coils again?? Also, did you purchase the W.P. part number 482493 defrost timer??? Whirlpool ref.s have two different systems, on time defrost and compressor cumulative run time defrost. The FSP timer has the flying lead, which has to be installed on the timer terminals according to how your ref. is set up from the factory. The instruction sheet included in the timer package explains how to tell where the black wire is to be installed onto the timer terminals. If this timer is wired wrong it will either not ever advance into defrost or will go into defrost and not come back out, will just stay dead except for the light. Tell us which timer you installed and if it is the correct timer, be sure the black lead is on the right terminal. When you get every thing installed properly, just set your controls in the middle and let it cycle by itself as will take at least 24 hours to cool down and stabalize every time you adjust the controls. If the defrost heater and bi-metal are good, turning the timer manually into defrost will activate the defrost heater and it will glow red within 2-5 minutes, which you can see thru the bottom of the evaperator panel on a SxS. ref. .If it does not come on your defrost heater could be defective, we have seen several of these go bad. I believe you need to check which defrost timer you installed into this unit, and make sure you defrosted the coils again after you replaced the b-metal, please....Pegi Last edited on Wed May 4th, 2005 17:27 by Pegi
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cdelsig
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| Joined: | Sat Apr 16th, 2005 |
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Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 06:22 |
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Pegi,
Well, I am not sure which timer I bought (and I won't have time to take 'er apart until tomorrow, if then) and I did follow the directions for installing the flying lead according to the directions. The timer I put on, I remember, was an 8-hour timer (which the one I took off was a 10-hour timer and had what I consider 2 flying leads). I did defrost the coils when I replaced the timer and again when I replaced the thermostat (had to just to be able to access the plug-in for the thermostat).
What I didn't get was that the fridge worked right for a couple days and the fridge got too cold as I was incrementally changing the dials. I lowered the fridge setting and closed the baffle some (to get the compressor to run less and to reduce the airflow between the freezer and the fridge (fridge temp was around 36° and I was aiming for 38°). The freezer temp rose from around 10° to 16° and the fridge temp jumped to 48° and I noticed frost formation on the back wall of the freezer (in the location of the condenser coils).
I unplugged the fridge and left it that way for 15 minutes and replugged it in. I set the dials for 'normal' and waited 24+ hours. I got readings of 48°/18°. I made small changes and now sit at '7' (with '8' as coldest) and 'B' (only 'A' allows more airflow between fresh and frozen) from initial starting off point of '4' and 'C.' This evening (after 20 hours), the readins were 42°/19° and the frost buildup is more now than before I saw the condenser coils for the first time ever.
I will have to look at 'er again Friday. I'll post my findings when I get find them.
Chris
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PK
Apprentice Appliantologist
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Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 07:34 |
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| A refrigerator with a defrost problem will cool fine for 2-3 days until the frost builds up again. Might want to check the defrost heater to see if it is working. Loosen the cover over the evaperator and make sure it is frosted. Advance the defrost timer into defrost by turning the little dial to the right slowly till you hear a louder click and the box goes dead except for the light. Do this slowly because the defrost cycle is only 3 clicks. If you go too fast and go back into the cooling mode, just turn it again to get it into defrost. Then watch the defrost heater to see if it comes on, gets red. This might take 3-5 minutes. If it comes on, it is good as is the bi-metal. If it does not come on either the heater is bad or the bi-metal is bad or not wired in right. But I would suspect the heater is bad since the bi-metal is new. If the defrost heater comes on, this means the timer is wired wrong. If the heater comes on let me know which terminal the flying lead is on, 1 or 2. The replacement FSP timer is the 8 hour timer, as it replaces the 12 and 10 hour timers as W/P decided that was too long between defrost cycles and could cause problems. I hope this helps you some, and will be waiting for your reply. Thanks for your reply. Pegi
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FatMan
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Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 16:21 |
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Hi C, Still here I see. Have you ever checked those door gaskets? I wasn't to wild about the mold you said was on them. How hot to the touch is that compressor? Another thought is whether the condensor fan motor is turning fast enough.
Ken"s Appliance Service
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cdelsig
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Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 16:34 |
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Fatman,
I have yet to replace the fridge gasket (I can't find any breaches of the freezer gasket) and the compressor isn't too hot. Well, I can keep my whole hand on it for 20+ seconds without any smoke, screaming or any real pain, so I assume that means it's okay (previously, you mentioned touching it without getting burned).
Tonight or tomorrow (depending on how tired I am tonight, lol) I am going to open 'er back up and check the defrost heater as Pegi recommended and also see if I can find a blockage between the two compartments.
At what temperature(s) should the thermometer perform its functions? I noticed when I was installing the new one it mentioned 25° and 50°, Does that mean it closes the circuit at 50° and opens it at 25°? Or is it 25° in the freezer and 50° in the fresh compartment?
Chris
Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to work I go! <grumble, grumble, grumble>
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Pegi
Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
| Joined: | Tue May 3rd, 2005 |
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Posted: Thu May 5th, 2005 21:14 |
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| The defrost termination thermostat resets at the 25* temperature to give power to the heater during the next defrost cycle. It opens at what you say is 50* to cut the power to the heater to keep the freezer from getting too warm while the rest of the defrost time, 21 minutes, run out. Surprised at the 50* open temperature, tho. Whirlpool usually uses a 60* or 70* cut out temperature. Keep us posted about what you find.
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cdelsig
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 05:32 |
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Here is a pic of my frosted up coils. Notice the glowing red calrod heater that has been in defrost mode for 8-10 minutes. Oh, wait. There is no red glow. Methinks there is something amiss...
So, what's the next step? I think I shall perform a continuity test on the heater. Set my multimeter to 200Ω range and the reading is.<drumroll please>...21.9. Well, I guess that tells me there is something wrong there, eh?
I am nearing pit crew speed when it comes to opening my freezer, emptying it and removing the back wall! Yipes!
Chris
Attachment: Frosty.jpg (Downloaded 103 times)
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
Fermented Grand Master of Appliantology
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 05:57 |
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You read 21.9 ohms on you defrost heater? The spec is 23.646 ohms... you're WAY off! 
Just kidding. That's a good heater, it ain't the problem.
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exsearsguy
Sublime Master of Appliantology
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 10:32 |
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| Try turning your fridge off then right back on. If you can keep your hand on that compressor for 20 seconds or longer, you're tougher than I am.If that comp comes right back on,I'd suspect an inefficient compressor. You don't happen to live in the south where it's starting to heat up already.
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FatMan
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 21:29 |
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| O hi C, Nice picture, try doing what Pegi said(I think I love her) with a higher limit themostat, and check Those door gaskets, especially the refrigerator door gasket on the bottom. Also try the dollar bill test, what's that you ask. Take a dollar and close the door on it and slide it around the gasket from top to bottom and side to side should be snug to the pull know slop
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cdelsig
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 22:16 |
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Since the problem isn't the heater and it doesn't heat up when cycled to defrost, what is my next area of investigation?
Btw, since I did thaw the coils last night, today's temp.s are 20°/40° after 16 hours, so my entire problem is related to defrosting (which I suppose is good to have determined).
Chris
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Pegi
Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 22:53 |
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If the cover was off of the evaperator when you put this into defrost, the bi-metal would have cut the defrost heater off too soon, as it would have opened too soon. But I just re-read your post and saw where you said it did not come on. Re-try this with the cover in place but loose so you can take a peek now and then to see if it is on. You will hear popping and hissing when it is on because of the defrosting water hitting the heater, and I really believe the bi-metal should be a higher temperature than 50* on a W.P. Ref. . Recheck your connections at the new bi-metal. Now if it defrosts ok with the back cover in place when you manually advance the timer into defrost, this tells you the bi-metal and heater are good. Might be too low of a temperature tho. But this would take us back to checking this new timer, which one you installed and where the black lead was installed. And to make sure you put the right wires from the ref. onto the right terminals on the timer. Was puzzled about your statement the new timer was larger than the original since the new FSP timers are very small, white and with a clear plastic cover over the motor area so you can visually see if the gears are turning. Please keep us posted.  PegiLast edited on Fri May 6th, 2005 23:02 by Pegi
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cdelsig
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 23:00 |
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Pegi,
I did purchase the 482493 defrost timer kit. I installed the timer with the lead on 2. the schematic on the fridge's paperwork matched that figure best in the timer's paperwork.
Chris
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Pegi
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 23:05 |
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| Ok, carefully remove the timer from the housing while the box is running and see if you see the gears turning under the clear plastic housing please....Pegi
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cdelsig
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 23:10 |
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I noticed it was while I was dickering with it last night.
Chris
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Pegi
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Posted: Fri May 6th, 2005 23:27 |
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| Hummmm, ok, advance it into defrost again and see if the heater is coming on. If it is not, there is something wrong with the heater or the bi-metal, would seem like, as there is nothing else in this defrost system. Or a wiring problem from the timer to the bi-metal. Did you go position to position on the defrost timer wires to the terminals, since some of them the numbers are reversed??? Last edited on Fri May 6th, 2005 23:28 by Pegi
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