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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > KitchenAid side-by-side model KSSS42QDW05 |
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| Moderated by: BrntToast, RegUS_PatOff, appl.tech.29501 | Search Our Sites for More Info! | Page: 1 2 3   |
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| KitchenAid side-by-side model KSSS42QDW05 | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 03:44 am |
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1st Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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My 1998 KitchenAid KSSS42QDW05 side-by-side seems to run too long and, more disturbingly, the freezer air temperature (measured by temperature sensor placed in freezer) occasionally rises many degrees even as the compressor is running. The refrigerator temperature is not a problem. A typical cooling cycle is compressor off for 23 minutes followed by compressor on for 56 minutes with freezer air temperature going from 5.8F to -2.3F degrees. During a defrost period the temperature usually rises to about 24. Then the compressor runs for 3+ hours to bring the freezer temperature down to -2.3. This morning (without having opened either freezer or refrigerator door) the “compressor on/temperature rises” event occurred. Some of the time/temperature reading were 7:35/0.2, 7:52/2.5, 8:00/4.9, 8:15/7.2, 8:28/8.8. At 8:00 I manually advanced the defrost timer a bit--no effect. At 8:10 I manually advanced the timer to and right through the defrost period--no effect. At 8:30 I switched off the unit for 10 minutes. That seemed to fix it because after that it cooled as usual. Once before when this happened I switched off the unit, removed the defrost timer and checked for timer continuity of the defrost circuit (no continuity) and of the compressor circuit (continuity) and they were normal. Yesterday, starting with freezer air temperature -2.2, in 11 minutes with compressor running I unloaded the freezer and exposed the evaporator coils. There was no ice buildup and no frost. I closed the freezer door, let compressor run for an hour, and checked the coils again. This time there was a light frost over all the coils with slightly more at the top than the bottom. Help! What’s the problem with my KitchenAid and what should I do about it?
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 03:55 am |
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2nd Post |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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It could a shorted Defrost Terminator (Switch) mounted on the Evaporator Coil that ends the Defrost Cycle and opens when it reaches 50F (closes again at 25F). If the Defrost Heater stays on for the full time of the Defrost Timer, you may get that result. KSSS42QDW05 Tech Sheets
____________________ The new repair forums==> http://appliantology.org RegUS_PatOff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw my video production: “Easter Seals Walk With Me” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBiLyYXMiA |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 04:14 am |
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3rd Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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RegUS_PatOff wrote: It could a shorted Defrost Terminator (Switch) mounted on the Evaporator Coil that ends the Defrost Cycle and opens when it reaches 50F (closes again at 25F).Yesterday when I exposed the evaporator coil I used a continuity tester to check that the Terminator opened when it got warm. In any event, if the defrost timer does pass current to the defrost heater and Terminator a defective terminator is out of the picture. The defrost timer was not in the defrost position and as I mentioned in my original post I had previously removed the defrost timer and checked its operation with a continuity tester. Also, judging from the position of the timer knob as the temperature was rising it was about 6 hours (over half a turn) past the defrost cycle.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 05:08 am |
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4th Post |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Is the Evaporator Fan staying on during Defrost, perhaps ? 
____________________ The new repair forums==> http://appliantology.org RegUS_PatOff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw my video production: “Easter Seals Walk With Me” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBiLyYXMiA |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 07:03 am |
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5th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I just checked. The evaporator fan is off when defrosting. Thanks for the Tech Sheet link in your previous message. I had scanned the one with my refrigerator and the result was not too readable. I could believe that the defrost Terminator (and, thus, the defrost heater) remains on, perhaps unnecessarily, through the entire defrost cycle. But the "compressor on/temperature rises" does not occur during the approx. 25-minute defrost cycle. It is hours away from that. Maybe the defrost timer has an intermittent failure that allows both compressor and defrost heater to be on simultaneously. That would explain things. When I started this thread I feared getting an immediate response saying "Your sealed system is trash. You need a new refrigerator." Happily I did not get that response (yet). If you have any more thoughts on this, I am all ears (actually, eyes).
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 07:37 am |
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6th Post |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Disconnect the Defrost circuit (anywhere that's convenient) to see what happens. The Evaporator Coils shouldn't frost/clog up for a week or more....
____________________ The new repair forums==> http://appliantology.org RegUS_PatOff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw my video production: “Easter Seals Walk With Me” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBiLyYXMiA |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 06:44 pm |
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7th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Disconnecting the defrost heater circuit is a great idea. Thanks. One place place I can think of for the deisconnect is the defrost Terminator. If I disconnect it that should do the trick. This morning (2/6) the freezer temperature was 20F with compressor on just before the defrost period was to begin. I switched the refrig off and left it off for 20 minutes, turned the defrost timer past the defrost position, switched refrig on and the cooling seems to be going fine. Once the freezer cools down I will do the disconnect.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 09:44 pm |
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8th Post |
DoctorGoz
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From your first description it seems the box is working normal getting below freezing and coming up in defrost since it turns on a heater to thaw and the thermostat opens about 45 50. It is almost impossible for it to defrost and cool at the same time because of the timer a manual clock that opens and closes one switch. look at the diagram.It looks like this uses thermisters to record the temperture. But again it doewnt look that far out of range.
____________________ DoctorGoz Appliance Doctor |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 6th, 2009 09:54 pm |
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9th Post |
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Pegi Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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We have seen several defrost timers that short out so the compressor and the defrost system is on at the same time, rare but can happen.....can see if the heater is on during the compressor run time, should be able to see it glowing red at the bottom of the freezer back panel holding the light switch in to turn the light off. My Whirlpool SxS which makes the KA friges stays at exactly 0 degrees except when in defrost at which time it goes to about 20 degrees.
____________________ To ask a question, use our new forums==> http://appliantology.org 365-Day No-Hassle Return Policy at RepairClinic! 
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| Posted: Sat Feb 7th, 2009 01:42 am |
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10th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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what made you start logging the temperature? is this an ongoing issue? are you sure there is something wrong? I would like to have seen the temperature after two hours. you stopped logging after an hour when the freezer reached 8.8, this could be explained by a warm refrigerator section. if you are absolutely sure there is a problem let the box run for a few hours and snap a picture of the evaperator for us to see, your description of more frost at the top could be an indicator of a sealed system issue.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Sat Feb 7th, 2009 04:35 am |
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11th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I am so impressed with the responses to my post received so far. Thanks so much. Here are some responses to your responses. Today (2/6/09) I exposed the evaporator and disconnected both the heater and terminator. I realize doing just one would be sufficient. Since my thermometor measuring freezer temperature tracks max/min I should be able use the max reading to see if the aberration (compressor on/temperature rises) occurs, without having to log the individual temperatures. It took me about 11 minutes to empty the freezer and remove the evaporator cover. Just before that the compressor had been running and the freezer air temperature was -2F, quite near the shutoff point. Just like the other times I removed the evaporator cover I noted no frost. However, there must be some frost during cooling because after a defrost cycle I always noted maybe an ounce or so of water in the drip pan. Since I have the heater disconnected I would not now be able to see it glowing red at the bottom of the freezer back panel. But that's a good suggestion and would have been so easy to do this morning with the freezer temperature 20F. The reason I started logging temperatures in both the freezer and refrigerator was because suddenly items in the refrigerator started freezing. That was on or just before 2/1. After I rearranged some items in the freezer and adjusted the refrigerator thermostat I continued to log and monitor the refrigerator temperature until 2/4. According to a max/min thermometer for the refrigerator there was no longer a problem with the refrigerator. But I noted the freezer problem. Once I stopped monitoring the refrigerator I moved that thermometer to the freezer to validate the other max/min thermometer in the freezer. Both thermometers show the same trend.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 7th, 2009 06:26 am |
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12th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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freezing in the refrigerator side could be a sign of a sealed system issue. could you post up a picture of the evaperator?
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 05:01 am |
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13th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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If it would help I’d be happy to post a picture of the evaporator after I disassemble to reconnect the heater and terminator that are now disconnected. So far I have removed the evaporator cover three times (once when compressor running and freezer temp was at -2F) and noted no frost or ice on the evaporator. Moisture, yes. Frost, no. One of those times I closed the door and let the compressor run for an hour. Then there was a very light frost with just slightly more toward the top. Yesterday (2/6) I disconnected both the defrost heater and the terminator hoping to rule out the heater being the cause of the “compressor on/temperature rising” problem. The disconnects were completed in 21 minutes at 2:58PM when the unit was switched on with freezer temperature 33.7F. The compressor then ran continuously (which seemed way too long) past 11:10PM when freezer temp was 0.7. I went to bed. At 2:29AM (2/7) I checked the max/min freezer thermometer and saw temp - 2.1, max/min = 6.5F/-3.4F with compressor on, so the freezer seemed to have cycled ok. I reset the max/min. At 6:24AM I saw temp=2.7 with max/min=5.8/-3.6 and compressor off so it appears that the freezer cycled properly between 2:29AM and 6:24AM. Could the heater have been the culprit? Alas, no, the heater is not guilty. At 9:48AM (2/7) the freezer temperature was 7.4, which is too high, considering neither door had been opened so far on 2/7. I logged the temperature every two minutes from 9:48 ‘til 12:06PM. The temperature rose to 15.5 at 10:50AM, when I shut off the unit for 12 minutes. The brief shutoff seemed to “reset” the unit because from 11.02AM to 12:12PM the temperature dropped from 15.5 to 1.3. Here are some of the time/temperatures(F) with switch off and switch on times. 9:50.9, 10:00.1, 10:10.0, 10:20.7, 10:30.0, 10:40.2, 10:50.9, 10:50\”switched off”, 11:00.3, 11:02/15.5, 11:02/”switched on”, 11:10.9, 11:20.5, 11:30.7, 11:40.7, 11:50.3, 12:00.8, 12:12.3 Neither the freezer nor the refrigerator door had been opened before 12:12PM today (2/7). The ambient temperature was about 65F. Curiously, I noted that with the heater and terminator disconnected the defrost timer does not advance. So, there was never a defrost period which would have shut off the compressor.. It appears something other than the heater, terminator, or defrost timer is causing the problem. What could it be? How to proceed? Any more ideas?
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 08:55 am |
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14th Post |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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Try removing the (2) Freezer Light Bulbs ? ... and (2) Fridge Light Bulbs ...
____________________ The new repair forums==> http://appliantology.org RegUS_PatOff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw my video production: “Easter Seals Walk With Me” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBiLyYXMiA |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 05:39 pm |
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15th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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if its an extra heat load such as the lights staying on the compressor will get extra hot. Do you feel a lot of heat coming out of the upper compartment? I would really like to see a picture of the evaperator. I am starting to lean on this being in the early stages of a sealed system leak, not uncommon on these built ins.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 08:49 pm |
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16th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Just to be sure I removed the 2 freezer and 2 refrig light bulbs. The air flow past the compressor feels pleasantly warm, certainly not hot. The air flow through the condenser coils is definitely cooler. So, I would say not a lot of heat comes from the upper compartment. How (in what state) do you want the picture(s) of the evaporator? Is there any particular place you would want a closeup? The heater and terminator have been disconnected since 2:59PM PST, 2/6/09 and it's now about 12:45PM, 2/8. Since they don't seem to be causing the problem I plan to reconnect them whenever I remove the evaporator cover. When would you suggest I do that? As I mentioned earlier, the other times I removed the evaporator cover I saw no frost. Would you want a picture right then and perhaps another after I let the compressor run for an hour or so? I'll try to get whatever pictures you want.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 09:06 pm |
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17th Post |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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tomj wrote: ... after I let the compressor run for an hour or so?...also, could you hold the palm of your hand on the Compressor for ... maybe 10 seconds ?
____________________ The new repair forums==> http://appliantology.org RegUS_PatOff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw my video production: “Easter Seals Walk With Me” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBiLyYXMiA |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 10:34 pm |
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18th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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take a picture when it is warming up but running. leave the panel off for 20 minutes to take the load off of the system and take another picture.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 10:45 pm |
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19th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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I haven't removed the evaporator cover or reconnected the heater/terminator, but the compressor has been running for two hours and I just put my hand on it for a minute. It was not uncomfortably hot at all.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 10:49 pm |
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20th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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tomj wrote: I haven't removed the evaporator cover or reconnected the heater/terminator, but the compressor has been running for two hours and I just put my hand on it for a minute. It was not uncomfortably hot at all. there should be 3 lines coming out of the compressor, 1 is a short one that doesn't go anywhere, one is fat, one is skinny. the fat line should be cool and the skinny line should be hotter than just warm.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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