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ApplianceGuru.com: The Samurai Appliance Repair Forums > Do-It-Yourself Appliance Repair Help > The Kitchen Appliance Repair Forum > KitchenAid side-by-side model KSSS42QDW05 |
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| Moderated by: BrntToast, RegUS_PatOff, appl.tech.29501 | Search Our Sites for More Info! | Page:   1 2 3   |
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| KitchenAid side-by-side model KSSS42QDW05 | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 11:48 pm |
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21st Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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The compressor still has been running for more than two hours. I saw and touched the three lines coming from the compressor. All three seemed to be the same diameter. One (call it line 1) is the short one toward the front that is crimped off and goes nowhere. The other two are around toward the rear of the compressor. The line (call it line 2) that is around toward the rear, but a bit closer to the front than the other line at the rear, is warm, no way is it hot. It has a crimped off T coming off it and is uninsulated until it runs into the space where the defrost timer is in the compartment above the condenser coil. The line (line 3) a bit more around toward the rear of the compressor than line 2 is just a bit cooler (I would not call it cold) than line 2. Line 3 is insulated right from the compressor and also runs into that compartment above the condenser coil.
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| Posted: Sun Feb 8th, 2009 11:59 pm |
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22nd Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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it sounds like its low on refrigerant. now would be a good time to snap a picture of the evap since it has been running so long
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 12:10 am |
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23rd Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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denrayr wrote: take a picture when it is warming up but running. leave the panel off for 20 minutes to take the load off of the system and take another picture.Could you please clarify so I get this right. Do you mean--with the compressor running, unload freezer, remove evaporator cover, and immediately snap a picture. Then leave the cover off for 20 minutes with compressor on or off? with door open or closed? then take a second picture. And, should I reconnect heater and terminator before replacing evaporator cover?
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| Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 02:09 am |
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24th Post |
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micgla Master Appliantologist 
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Have you ever seen any frost on the evap even a slight frost? Usually some frost sometime is normal so if you've never seen any i would suspect a sealed system issue.. Also, you could unplug the evap motor, let the unit run without the evap. panel on for up to 10 minutes,, watch for any frost throughout the entire length of the evap. If none appears or it is only on the top portion of the evap. this is a sign of sealed system issues...... Last edited on Mon Feb 9th, 2009 02:24 am by micgla ____________________ I Don't know yet! |
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| Posted: Mon Feb 9th, 2009 03:24 am |
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25th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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tomj wrote: denrayr wrote:take a picture when it is warming up but running. leave the panel off for 20 minutes to take the load off of the system and take another picture.Could you please clarify so I get this right. doors closed with panel removed. this will prevent air from being pulled across the coil. it will allow us to see the frost pattern under a load then not under a load. i would go ahead and hook everything back up.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 01:35 am |
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26th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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denrayr wrote: tomj wrote:Attached is a PDF file containing two photos taken today (2/9).denrayr wrote:take a picture when it is warming up but running. leave the panel off for 20 minutes to take the load off of the system and take another picture. The first is a picture of the evaporator, with compressor running, immediately after removing the evaporator cover with the compressor having been on for 3 hours and freezer temperature (just before disassembly) down to 0.5F. The second is of the evaporator after leaving freezer door closed for 20 more minutes with compressor off. That picture shows a piece of blue tape in the upper left, placed there just to indicate that the picture was taken after 20 minutes rather than before. Prior to taking these pictures the defrost heater and terminator had been disconnected for three days so there was not a defrost during the previous three days. I hope the pictures are what you wanted. Attachment: Before_and_After20.pdf (Downloaded 16 times)
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 01:48 am |
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27th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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it looks like a sealed system issue to me. one more test you can do is after its been running a while, lick your finger and touch it to the tube on the right that goes up from the bottom. your finger should stick (freeze) to the tube
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 02:59 am |
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28th Post |
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RegUS_PatOff Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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denrayr wrote: it looks like a sealed system issue to me...yes, it should be evenly frosted ...
____________________ The new repair forums==> http://appliantology.org RegUS_PatOff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPAY2LsKVEw my video production: “Easter Seals Walk With Me” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-EBiLyYXMiA |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 03:22 am |
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29th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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denrayr wrote: it looks like a sealed system issue to me. one more test you can do is after its been running a while, lick your finger and touch it to the tube on the right that goes up from the bottom. your finger should stick (freeze) to the tubeI assume you mean the tube on the right in the evaporator? If you confirm that, for completeness I will try it tomorrow, but since there's little, if any, frost toward the bottom of the evaporator I can guess the outcome. As RegUS_PatOff pointed out, and you know and I now know, the uneven frost is a tell-tale sign of a sealed system problem.
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 05:59 am |
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30th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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the reason i suggested touching the tube was because its hard to see in the picture. if you can confirm it was dry then case closed 
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 10:32 am |
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31st Post |
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Budget Appliance Repair Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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It's deffinitely a sealed system probelm. See the beginnings of the ice ball up in top right hand corner of each evap picture. It is hard to see but it looks like the frost is only making it down to barely the 4th or 5th row of tubes, (if even that -- looks the the ends are frosted but the center sections not, maybe from the air flow thru them).
____________________ William Burk (Willie) Willie's Budget Appliance Repair Eureka, CA 95501 |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 10th, 2009 10:49 pm |
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32nd Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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Budget Appliance Repair wrote: It's deffinitely a sealed system probelm.As denrayr suggested I once again removed the evaporator cover to touch a wet finger to the tube on the right. The compressor had been running for hours and before disassembly the freezer was down to 1.8F and the unit has not gone through a defrost cycle since 2/6. Attached is a PDF file of 5 evaporator pictures taken today (2/10). As expected the tube was cool, but no way cold enough to freeze my wet finger to it. Yes, the lower tubes have no frost and a few above the lower ones have some frost only at the ends. Everyone agrees the problem is with the sealed system. Could you experts could give me some advice about what to do about my fridge. It was made in 6/98, less than 11 year ago. It has panels across the front that match my other kitchen cabinets. The owners manual says about the warranty, for 7th through 12th year from installation--Kitchenaid will pay for repacement parts to correct defects in materials or workmanship in the sealed refrigeration system. These parts are Compressor, Evaporator, Condenser, Drier, Connecting Tubing. Of course, labor is not included. I live in California and am not the original owner. Without searching too hard, a new refridge would cost 5, 6, or $7K. I continue to appreciate all your comments. This Forum is quite impressive. Attachment: Evaporator_021009.pdf (Downloaded 5 times)
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| Posted: Wed Feb 11th, 2009 04:48 am |
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33rd Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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definately a sealed system issue. call kitchenaid and inquire about the warranty, ask if its transferrable. there are two common spots for leaks on these. the defrost drain pan heater and the heat exchanger. given the fact that it is still cooling and this has been an ongoing issue my vote is on the heat exchanger. the heat exchanger is the tubing that goes from the top of the box down the back and into the evaperator. the heat exchanger is insulated by foam. this foam gets saturated with moisture and causes the tubing to rot out.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20th, 2009 09:52 pm |
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34th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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denrayr wrote: definately a sealed system issue. call kitchenaid and inquire about the warranty, ask if its transferrable.Summary: Intermittent--compressor runs, but temperature rises. Appliance guru.com consensus is sealed system problem. Yes, sealed system parts are covered by my Kitchenaid warranty until 6/2010. There are three Kitchenaid service providers for my zip code. One is a nationwide company that gets very poor ratings in my area. The second asked “How can I fix an intermittent problem?”. The third came to my home on 2/18, heard the story, and said -- Not a refrigerant leak because unit usually cools properly. Might be a problem with filter-drier or compressor. If any part of sealed system is replaced Kitchenaid recommends the entire sealed system be replaced. If he were to replace sealed system--$2200 including $950 labor (one person 5 hours) with a 30-day warranty. He must have felt some sympathy, seeing my 22 sheets of data and my refrigerator instrumented like a cardiac patient, so he did not even charge a service fee . Does what this repairman said sound reasonable? If so I might take him up on the $950 offer.
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 07:02 am |
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35th Post |
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denrayr Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology
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tomj wrote: denrayr wrote:definately a sealed system issue. call kitchenaid and inquire about the warranty, ask if its transferrable.Summary: Intermittent--compressor runs, but temperature rises. did they even look at the unit? it sounds like they are taking a shotgun approach rather than diagnosing the problem. I have never heard or read of kitchen aid recommending complete sealed system replacement.
____________________ RedRock Appliance Service 435-773-7838 http://www.redrockrepair.com Serving St George and Southern Utah |
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 05:17 am |
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36th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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denrayr wrote: tomj wrote:Thanks for your response. I really appreciate it.denrayr wrote:definately a sealed system issue. call kitchenaid and inquire about the warranty, ask if its transferrable.Summary: Intermittent--compressor runs, but temperature rises. When I first described the intermittent problem the technician’s response was something like “I can’t help you because it’s working ok now. Maybe someone who knows more could find something.” He said I could call him if the problem occurred and he would get to my home as quickly as possible to see what he might find. I declined that. His “examination” of the unit consisted of opening each door and looking inside, and then stepping onto a stool to look at the condenser coils. He made no comments about the exam. Our conversation went on for quite a few minutes, no doubt because of my quizzical, stunned expression. For I was thinking, who, but a KitchenAid service provider would be more appropriate to fix my KitchenAid unit while under warranty? And, I was running out of service providers. It was only toward the end of the appointment that he said KitchenAid recommends a complete sealed system replacement if any part of it is replaced, and he had already stepped out the front door when he gave me the price for the replacement. It’s pretty frustrating to describe the intermittent problem in detail, mention the sealed system, and then have someone who shows up and says he can’t do anything because the problem is not occurring when he arrives. I am at a loss as to how to get someone who is able to properly diagnose the problem and make the repair. It’s just my bad luck that I live near San Francisco, rather than St. George
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| Posted: Sun Feb 22nd, 2009 01:30 pm |
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37th Post |
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nickfixit Fellow, Academy of Sublime Masters of Appliantology 
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I have done many of these projects as a factory authorized servicer, so... You need to replace the compressor, evaporator, heat exchanger, pan heater and filter dryer. This really is the way Whirlpools' engineers want it done. Your servicer should blow out the condenser loop with CO2 or Nitrogen to remove contaminates from inside the lines. Whirlpools' policy is to use the sweep-charge method of recharging the unit. Many servicers would use the vacuum pump method, which is good, as long as they include the "partial charge to clean" step. This is a huge job, usually 2 guys working 4 or more hours. The unit needs to be rolled out from the cabinets to service. You can have issues with the water line, cabinet trim, and flooring. I have seen units that could not be repaired because we could not get the thing out. If I was an independent servicer, I would not even touch the thing. With only about 1 year warranty left on the parts, the new parts will not extend the warranty, you'll be on your own soon anyway. After the repair, it's common to have ongoing problems. There is a chance the unit will never be reliable again. You should think about investing in a new machine. I know it's a lot of money, but you'll get a new, more energy efficient, unit with a long warranty. I have always thought that built-in refrigerators are a very bad idea. You are married to the thing due to the desire to match the cabinets. If the machine goes bad, you have to chose between expensive repairs, or more expensive replacement. Replacement options are limited because of the need to fit the existing hole in the kitchen. It's a big price to pay for style. Nick
____________________ " Giving numerical data to Sears management is like giving a monkey a machine gun. No one knows for certain what will happen, but you can be sure of two things... It will be real messy, and only the monkey will be unharmed" |
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24th, 2009 10:21 pm |
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38th Post |
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tomj Senior Apprentice Appliantologist
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nickfixit wrote: I have done many of these projects as a factory authorized servicer, so...Thank you. I understand about needing to replace virtually all the sealed system. I agree with you on built-ins--a bad idea. However, my wife has a different opinion so there's the bind. Thus, what I have decided to do is go with one of the Kitchenaid service providers and try the repair option first. After I meet with the second one this Saturday I will try to gauge which of the two is less likely to ruin the hardwood floor or anything else, and even, perhaps, fix the refrigerator. The first, who came to my house, said he does the the job entirely by himself. I asked him about floor damage and he said some customers are asked to sign a waiver (giving a license to ruin hardwood floors, no doubt). He said he puts down some sort of plastic or material, not plywood because it's too difficult to get the refridgerator over the lip on the plywood.
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27th, 2009 03:27 pm |
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39th Post |
DoctorGoz
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I would just have someone come out an tap into the freon line an add freon. This would be less expensive and would probably last awhile, a year or more in most cases unless its a big leak and your box would already be down for the count. Shouldnt run more than $100. A-1 tap valve and a few ounces of 134a freon. You may not have to pull it out unless the compressor is behind the refridge.
____________________ DoctorGoz Appliance Doctor |
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27th, 2009 03:30 pm |
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40th Post |
DoctorGoz
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Your compressor is on top just like a subzero, no need to pull the box out, you can get to all the parts from the front.
____________________ DoctorGoz Appliance Doctor |
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