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 Moderated by: BrntToast, RegUS_PatOff, appl.tech.29501 Search Our Sites for More Info! Page:    1  2  Next Page Last Page  
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Ice maker hollow cubes explanation  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 11:28 am
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DIYGremlin
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Hi to all. I have found this forum very helpful...but let me jump in now....

My ice maker has been producing hollow cubes. Sometimes all of the cubes on a batch are all OK. Sometimes I get one or two hollow cubes per batch. I read in this forum that low water pressure is the most likely explanation. But that didn't make sense to me in this case. Wouldn't low pressure just make smaller cubes? So I ran some experiments, and I have now confirmed it......an alternate explanation. Here it is:

The cubes are not frozen long enough, and here is the mechanism for making the hollow cubes.

1. The water in the cube moulds freezes on the bottom and sides first. The water is in contact with the metal mould and gets better heat transfer than on the top layer.

2. The top layer freezes also, but at a slower rate because of the lower rate of heat transfer from the air. Therefore the top layer ice is thinner than the sides and bottom.

3. So now we have cubes frozen all around except in the middle. There is still a suspended puddle of water in the center of the cube.

4. Suddenly and prematurely, the ice dumper is commanded to dump the ice.

5. The dump fingers start their rotation and bear down on the top of the cubes while the heater starts to melt the bottom of the cubes so they will release from the mould.

6. The pressure from the fingers bearing down now cracks some the cubes top layer of ice, because it is thin. Some cubes are strong enough to hold the pressure without cracking.

7. Now when the cubes are released from their mould, the fingers continue their push toward the bin; i.e. under and over.

8. In mid-travel on their journey toward the bin, the cubes are turned upright for a second or two. This is when the unfrozen water in the cracked cubes gets dumped out. The uncracked cubes do not dump any water.

9.  The cubes make it to the bin. The uncracked and partially frozen cubes continue to freeze while in the bin.

Now you have it. The cubes are not allowed to freeze long enough before being dumped. So my question is obvious:

Is there are freeze timer, and if so, is it adjustable, and if so, how do I do this?

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 Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 11:45 am
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RegUS_PatOff
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are the cubes in the bin frozen together from all that un-frozen water, now freezing ?

 



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 Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 12:20 pm
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DIYGremlin
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Yes, a little. There is not enough water being dumped to make too much of a mess, but there is some. The cubes in the bin break apart easy enough.

Another thing that happens occasionally is that the level control arm gets stuck down. I believe this is caused by cubes sticking together above the arm before it lifts up. When this happens, the production of ice doesn't stop, so the bin overflows and giant blob of ice is waiting for me when I open the door.

Edit: I realize I did not post the model. Kenmore 1069550751.

Last edited on Thu Feb 21st, 2008 12:33 pm by DIYGremlin

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 Posted: Thu Feb 21st, 2008 03:17 pm
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jambatt
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Mould thermostat is not cycling properly. Calling for harvest cycle too soon.


http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=820052

Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 08:07 pm by



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 Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 07:00 am
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FREONBOB
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YOUR HALF RIGHT  the main reason for your problem of a hollow cube is not enought water . what happens is water enters the rear of the ice maker if there is not enough water or the ice maker or the fridge itself is tilted back the front cube spot gets no water . with just cold air on that part of the mold the mold gets cold  there faster than the parts that have water in them . the harvest thermostat is attached to the front of the mold and  tripps and you have unfrozen ice  and this will keep happening untill you get water into that front cube slot .  good luck

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 Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 02:04 pm
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appl.tech.29501
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Water valve part link


http://www.repairclinic.com/referral.asp?R=154&N=3307

Last edited on Sun Feb 24th, 2008 08:07 pm by



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 Posted: Sun Feb 24th, 2008 07:56 pm
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DIYGremlin
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Freonbob,

I understand what you are saying, but this is not the case. The refrigerator is not tilted, and water flow is not restricted. All I have to do to make perfect cubes every time is to pull the level arm up (turning off the harvest cycle) and allow extra freezing time. When I do this, all the cubes are perfectly full and not hollow each and every time.

jambatt has is right. It is the thermostat. I was wondering if there is a timer in addition to the thermostat.

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 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2008 09:53 pm
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appl.tech.29501
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There is no timer for the icemaker, the thermostat tell the icemaker when to harvest



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 Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 07:55 pm
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julieannjohn
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This is my first time to post here, but I've read here many times and gotten the help I needed.  I never found the answer about this icemaker problem until now (after getting tired of always raising the metal bar on my icemaker so it would freeze all the way through, I decided to come here one more time to find the answer).  Now, I have a question.  I understand about the water not making it to the front of the tray where the harvest thermostat is because that's what mine is doing.  Today, after I lowered the bar and the ice dumped out and it filled (all be it partially) with water, I manually poured water in the tray, being careful to get it in the front molds.  Lo, and behold, the cubes froze all the way!  This tells me I need to replace the water valve.  Now, my question is: What is wrong with the valve?  I mean, more than just "it went bad/old".  Can it not be fixed?  I saw where appl.tech.29501 from S.C. gave the link for the valve, but can't I get it locally?  (thanks, 29501) 
 
Most importantly, are there some clear instructions somewhere on how to replace it?  Thanks so much!
Julie
 

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 Posted: Fri May 16th, 2008 09:27 pm
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Samurai Appliance Repair Man
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The water pressure problem, which sounds like what you have, will either be caused by a bad saddle tap valve:



or a bad water inlet solenoid.

One way to tell is to turn off the saddle tap valve, disconnect the water supply tube from the water inlet valve on the back of the fridge, open saddle tap valve (helpful to have someone else do this for you) and observe flow. Should be strong and vigorous. If lame, then the saddle tap valve is gunked up with gunkus (not to be confoosed with gookus, which is a whole 'nother matter alto-freakin-gether).

As for buying parts locally, can you get any more local than right here on your compooter screen? :gaptooth:

Last edited on Fri May 16th, 2008 09:28 pm by Samurai Appliance Repair Man



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 Posted: Tue Mar 31st, 2009 06:18 pm
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juliejulie
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Dear Samurai Appliance Repair Man, Fermented Grand Master of Appliantology,
I'm back again. I haven't fixed this problem because, back in May, I didn't have the ambition to complete this fix. Now I do, and want to check the saddle tap valve. I have a Kenmore model no. 106.9545781 and do not see the saddle tap valve in the back. I do see something like this (water valve, I think):
http://www.repairclinic.com/SSPartDetail.aspx?PartID=3307&PPStack=1

Would this saddle tap valve be after/behind the water valve? From your picture, it looks like it would be at the wall, where the fridge gets its water from. It's just regular plumbing type parts. You know, water line coming in, a turn on/off handle, a place where the tubing connects and runs to the fridge.

Anyway, I am ready to fix this problem. I'm tired of always raising the metal bar and coming back to the fridge to lower it so it can dump the ice.

Thanks in advance and I hope this makes sense.
Julie

p.s.  I just realized that I'm on here twice.  Once as julieannjohn and once as juliejulie.  I don't know how that happened.

Last edited on Tue Mar 31st, 2009 06:19 pm by juliejulie

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 Posted: Tue Mar 31st, 2009 07:46 pm
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RegUS_PatOff
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here's a "saddle valve", which would be the house source of the water supply.

It usually clamps onto a house water pipe.

click on picture



 




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 Posted: Wed Apr 1st, 2009 04:15 am
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juliejulie
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Here is what my water inlet turn on/off thing looks like:



Is the saddle valve behind this?  Thanks in advance.

Julie

Last edited on Wed Apr 1st, 2009 04:17 am by juliejulie

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 Posted: Wed Apr 1st, 2009 04:52 am
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Wow!!! Fancy hook up.. Test water pressure at the other end of the plastic line. If good , may need new valve on the fridge. Don't know if you have a water adjustment screw on the front of your ice maker.

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 Posted: Wed Apr 1st, 2009 05:48 pm
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juliejulie
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Yes, I have a water adjustment screw on the front of the ice maker. I timed how long it filled before I adjusted it to fill longer and then I timed it after I adjusted it and it definitely took longer to fill, thereby, getting more water. I have even rolled the fridge back on a piece of 1/4" plywood paneling and it didn't help, only made the door not want to close on its own. So, do you think that there probably isn't a saddle valve behind my "fancy hookup"? Thanks again!

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 Posted: Wed Apr 1st, 2009 06:32 pm
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RegUS_PatOff
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Turn oiff the nice blue valve and disconnect the tube at the Fridge.

Place tube into bucket and turn the blue valve on to see if it has nice pressure ...

The Icemaker "fill time" is usually about 7 seconds.

 



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 Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 05:27 pm
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certified tech group 51
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juliejulie Your original question was " what is wrong with the valve?" In the valve is a fixed oriface, allowing Apx. 3.75 oz. of water in to the mold. If something is partially blocking the oriface, bit of plastic, bit of rust from pipes, you get a low flow condition......Did increasing the water volume at the I/M water fill adjustment  help? jambatt could be correct in a defecive thermostat............or not enough thermalastic on the thermostat,  ( temp transfer paste )   keep us posted............

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 Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 06:05 pm
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juliejulie
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Thank you, certified tech group 51, for your reply.  No, increasing the fill time didn't help.  Water still doesn't reach the front 2 or 3 ice moulds.  I will replace the water valve if I find that there is no saddle valve.  I just don't know if there is typically a saddle valve enclosed in a wall behind what you see in my picture above.  Is there such a thing as what you see above that reduces the water pressure so there's no need for a saddle valve? 

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 Posted: Fri Apr 3rd, 2009 07:24 pm
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RegUS_PatOff
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RegUS_PatOff wrote: Turn oiff the nice blue valve and disconnect the tube at the Fridge.

Place tube into bucket and turn the blue valve on to see if it has nice pressure ...

The Icemaker "fill time" is usually about 7 seconds.

 



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 Posted: Sat Apr 4th, 2009 03:51 am
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jambatt
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Lookin' at your pic tells me you don't have a saddle valve. Your hookup is better. Follow RegUS's advice. If you have a good stream of water coming out of the pipe, then it is probably your water valve. OBTW  Have found the water line partially closed off due to someone forcing it too far into the valve and then being pinched when the ferrule nut was tightened.

Last edited on Sat Apr 4th, 2009 03:55 am by jambatt



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