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Kitchenaid Model # KERC506HWH2  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 03:45 am
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acillatem
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Hi, Hope I can get some suggestions regarding our range. Tonight, the oven decided it would not heat up, just out of the blue. It worked fine last night. The display shows that it is on, the temp, etc..........just no heat. The fan is coming on, but all the heating elements are cold.......no heat at all. The stovetop is working fine. The one other thing my wife noticed when trying to get it to work, is that the temperature readout goes back to 00 when she shuts it off..........she says it has never done that before........that it usually just goes blank. Don't know if that could be related to the no heat problem, but possible. Any advice or info greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

 

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 Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 02:13 pm
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applianceman18007260692
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WHIRLPOOL             ROPER            KITCHENAID




NOTE: Not valid for Y line. If there is a Y near the end of your model number, do not use this chart.



Display
Condition
Repair

4 Digit Display

FO - E0
Analog to Digital
Failure
Disconnect for 30
seconds- if display
re-appears- replace
control

F1 - E1
Safety flip flop
replace

F2 - E0
shorted keypad
replace

F3 - E0
sensor or sensor fuse opened
replace sensor or fuse

F3 - E1
sensor shorted
replace sensor

F3 - E2
oven too hot
replace sensor

F3 - E3
clean temp. too hot
replace sensor

F5 - E0
F5 - E1 and E2

check door/latch
switch
replace

2 Digit Display

F0 or F1 or F5
Failed transistor
Replace ERC

F2
Oven temp too high
1. Test operation of door lock on self-clean models.
2. Test relay contact operation
3. High resistance in sensor (should be apx. 1100 ohms)

F3
Open sensor or thermal fuse
Replace sensor or thermal fuse

F4
Shorted sensor
Replace sensor

F6
Problem in time keeping circuit
1. Reset time and/or cooking operation
2. Check for proper ground

F7
Stuck function switch or button on ERC
Replace ERC

F8
Failure of ERC
Replace ERC

F9
Door lock circuit
Check wiring and test operation of door lock switch getting any of these codes on the oven control?



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 Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 02:25 pm
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applianceman18007260692
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besure to unplug the range before checking any possible defective parts

a neat trick for not moving the range is pull out the bottom drawer and look in the back under there...with anyluck the power plug will be right there

next check both element for continuity with ohms meter or poormans meter

if all that on bottom is OK then you probably need a ERC

Attachment: shock4.jpg (Downloaded 142 times)



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 Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 02:28 pm
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applianceman18007260692
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ERC = electronic range control 

number 15 in the pic

Attachment: kitchenaid range.jpg (Downloaded 142 times)



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 Posted: Mon Jul 16th, 2007 10:53 pm
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acillatem
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Thanks for responding! Isn't it odd that none of the oven elements are getting hot, or do they all go out if one goes out. Correct me If I'm wrong, but an ohm meter will just show continuity, correct? And, that erc panel is just something I could buy, and plug in myself, correct? Thanks!Oh, and I'm not getting any error codes either.

Last edited on Mon Jul 16th, 2007 10:54 pm by acillatem

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 Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 11:17 pm
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acillatem
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Just wasted money on an ERC board with no change at all. The only good thing that came out of that is the buttons are much easier to push than the old board. They were never easy, and we asked the service guy about it when he was fixing something else, and he said it was normal because of the way the board attches to the control panel, and we believed him. Anyway, at least there is a positive to the new ERC board, but the oven still doesn't heat up. Now, correct me If I'm wrong(again), but all 3 elements in the oven can't go out at the same time, correct. If one goes out, the other two would still work, right?We tried bake and broil, and nothing. Does that leave only the oven temperature sensor as the only culprit or???? Any help greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Last edited on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 01:55 am by acillatem

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 Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 11:55 pm
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acillatem
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Any fuses or anything like that hidden somewhere????

Last edited on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 01:56 am by acillatem

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 Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 04:12 am
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Keinokuorma
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Trying to answer a couple points.

The Ohm meter will show various levels of continuity depending on what you measure. The elements should not be open, and not entirley closed (zero Ohms). Bet something between 20 to 30 for bake is rather close to truth... The "poor man's meter" which consists of a power source, signal lamp, and some wire, isn't as accurate, but will tell whether the elements are open or not.
 
Although it is REALLY unlikely that all elements went out at the same time. It's so unlikely that I've never seen it, and I bet if that has once happened to one of our masters, it's a miracle. I would bet my butt that it is something else.

There could be a hand resettable thermal cutout in the back of the unit, there is very probably a one-pass thermal fuse somewhere... these would kill power to the elements... you could temporarily jumper them to try if it changes aything... if it has a separate relay board, problem could lie there...

You can temporarily jumper a fuse to check if it affects anything.



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 Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 04:25 am
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acillatem
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Keinokuorma wrote:

There could be a hand resettable thermal cutout in the back of the unit, there is very probably a one-pass thermal fuse somewhere... these would kill power to the elements... you could temporarily jumper them to try if it changes aything... if it has a separate relay board, problem could lie there...

You can temporarily jumper a fuse to check if it affects anything.
Any idea where any of these might be.......the blowups I've found online don't show any "fuses". And thanks for your help!

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 Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 06:00 am
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Do you have the wiring diagram that came with the range?

If not you can see it here: "http://www.servicematters.com/docs/wiring/Tech Sheet - 9753984.pdf"
to get wiring diagram. Sorry couldn't get the link to be clickable with those spaces in it. You need to copy and paste to get to this link.

It shows a 20amp fuse in the L2 circuit that supplies all three elements going to the "Double Line Break Relay" on the main board.

I've looked at all the parts breakdown pictures and parts list and can't find the fuse anywhere so I don't know where it will be located on your range. You need to follow the big red wire from the pigtail connection block to find the fuse.



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 Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 10:37 am
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Keinokuorma
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Shown here in the magenta ring... appears to be not hand resettable...

Attachment: KERC506HWH2_20Afuse.bmp (Downloaded 120 times)



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 Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 11:54 am
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acillatem
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Thanks! Would you have any idea if that will be a common fuse I can just get at radio shack, or ???? I don't see a fuse in any of the parts breakdowns either, so wondering how I'd get the fuse. I'll have to find it now.......should look kind of obvious.

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 Posted: Fri Jul 20th, 2007 01:37 pm
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Keinokuorma
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Guess it might look like a tiny black plastic button with two wire terminals... didn't find the right one on RCC with a picture, but could look like this one:



Note that this is not the 20A current limit fuse for your unit, but you may be looking for something in a similar casing.

BTW here's the whole sheet, clickable in a tiny url: http://tinyurl.com/yslo79

Last edited on Fri Jul 20th, 2007 02:01 pm by Keinokuorma



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 Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 02:19 am
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acillatem
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I have looked very thoroughly, and there is no fuse. Up in the top control panel all around the ERC board, and in the back after removing the back cover. I even followed the thick red wire down to the pigtail, and no fuse of any kind. I'm not kidding, it's not there, unless they hid it under the cooktop on mine, and I doubt that. I went and bought an Ohm Meter today, and checked all 3 elements, and all 3 registered zero when tested, which is what I should get if working correctly, right? And I checked the oven temperature sensor, and it measured 1000 ohms resistance, which I've been told is what it should be......hopefully that was accurate information. I did find the common wire that all 3 elements share, and it is a brown wire that ends up going to a sort of tan wire that ends up at some terminal on the ERC board, and the plastic over the connector has a kind of "burned" look to it, which seems odd to me. From what I can see, it still appears solid, so I'm assuming there is still a good connection, but this could be the problem, so I have a couple pictures, to see if anyone agrees, or has an idea what is going on with this. It is linked to the 3 elements, so maybe this is the culprit. Here are the 2 pictures:

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/metalliholic06/DSCF1875.jpg

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/metalliholic06/DSCF1874.jpg
 

Again, any advice greatly appreciated,and thanks in advance! I almost called the local repair place today after the new board didn't solve the problem,but I have this feeling it's something simple now. Sure hope so anyway. I don't give up easily lol.

Last edited on Sat Jul 21st, 2007 04:06 am by acillatem

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 Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 05:43 am
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Keinokuorma
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Humm.

That could be the double line break relay... by the diagram, there would be a red wire coming to it, and one wire which is linked to the elements... which would be the tan wire if this is at all what we're looking for.

If it's that, the red wire would run from the relay to the L2 line and have the fuse somewhere along its length then... for the afterlife of me I can't figure out what colour the diagram would list for the wire to the elements. Odd, it doesn't list the fuse as optional...

Anyway the burn mark doesn't promise good. That realy could be the culprit... If you are careful, you could jumper those two wires together and see if it works then... note that this will have the other ends of the elements permanently live. If this makes it work, you have two options, either change the whole board, or try to change the relay on the board.

I can't recommend you to leave the wires permanently jumpered, because that isn't the way the oven is intended to work, and if it catches fire or someone gets shocked, there may be problems with insurance.



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 Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 10:45 am
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Budget Appliance Repair
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First check that burnt connector real close, that looks like it may have been a bad connection and could have burnt the wiring where it can't carry the load anymore.


That does appear to be the double line break relay, but that is on the control board and you said you already put a new control board in and it still doesn't work.

I've never seen a 20amp any type fuse in a newer range just the real old ones. If you followed the L2 red wire from the pigtail to the ERC and that is the red wire on that relay the tan one that comes from the three elements also connects to then we must assume there really isn't a 20amp fuse in the circuit and the next step will be to do some live volt test.

You need to make things safe where you can get your meter probes to the connectors on the double line break relay when you turn the power on.


ALL VOLT READING TAKEN WITH ALL WIRING CONNECTED:

With range plugged in and ready to go, first check to make sure you 220-240volts at the pigtail connector block.

Then check to make sure you have 110-120volts to the red wire on the double line break relay to a good ground, (if yes that tells us there is no fuse or it is ok if it exist).

Now, check on the tan wire on the other side of the double line break relay to ground, you should have zero volts.

Turn the oven on and check between the red and the tan wire, you should get zero volts, if this reads 220-240volts then the relay/ERC is bad.



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 Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 01:24 pm
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acillatem
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Keinokuorma wrote: If this makes it work, you have two options, either change the whole board, or try to change the relay on the board.


This is the brand new board from a couple days ago.

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 Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 01:24 pm
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acillatem
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Keinokuorma wrote: If this makes it work, you have two options, either change the whole board, or try to change the relay on the board.


This is the brand new board from a couple days ago. It didn't solve the problem, so maybe it's simply the burnt terminal........and has been the whole time.

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 Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 03:06 pm
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acillatem
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Budget Appliance Repair wrote: First check that burnt connector real close, that looks like it may have been a bad connection and could have burnt the wiring where it can't carry the load anymore.


That does appear to be the double line break relay, but that is on the control board and you said you already put a new control board in and it still doesn't work.

I've never seen a 20amp any type fuse in a newer range just the real old ones. If you followed the L2 red wire from the pigtail to the ERC and that is the red wire on that relay the tan one that comes from the three elements also connects to then we must assume there really isn't a 20amp fuse in the circuit and the next step will be to do some live volt test.

You need to make things safe where you can get your meter probes to the connectors on the double line break relay when you turn the power on.


ALL VOLT READING TAKEN WITH ALL WIRING CONNECTED:

With range plugged in and ready to go, first check to make sure you 220-240volts at the pigtail connector block.

Then check to make sure you have 110-120volts to the red wire on the double line break relay to a good ground, (if yes that tells us there is no fuse or it is ok if it exist).

Now, check on the tan wire on the other side of the double line break relay to ground, you should have zero volts.

Turn the oven on and check between the red and the tan wire, you should get zero volts, if this reads 220-240volts then the relay/ERC is bad.
Thank you...........will try those things out. I have a feeling it is the burnt connector, especially since I have replaced the board. I should be able to get that at Radio Shack, correct?

Last edited on Sat Jul 21st, 2007 03:07 pm by acillatem

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 Posted: Sat Jul 21st, 2007 09:48 pm
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acillatem
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I just discovered something that I may have blown off as a connector of some type, but may be the inline fuse for the red wire that goes to the relay. It is not too far up the red wire from the pigtail, and looks like a fuse that may have been sealed with that heat shrink tubing, or whatever it's called. Maybe I'm wrong, but take a look:
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/metalliholic06/DSCF1273.jpg
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j161/metalliholic06/DSCF1275.jpg

What do you think? Looks like one of those automotive type fuses in a holder, and shrink wrapped.........or i'm just hoping beyond hope. I have a feeling I'm going to look like an idiot here soon, lol.

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